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Off topic: 泰晤士(TIMES)四合院儿
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David Lin  Identity Verified
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Golden Era Aug 14, 2015

wherestip wrote:

David Lin wrote:
偶然读到。

令人想起以前看过的电影 《色,戒》里面的梁朝伟和汤唯。


David,

You wouldn't happen to be reading a review of the movie "Blackhat"? It has at least 2 of the actors of Chinese descent that acted in "Lust | Caution". BTW, I didn't like "Blackhat" one bit; half way through the film I fell asleep.

Any technical person would tell you it's pure fiction kludged together by someone who didn't have a clue. Plus IMO the acting was subpar.


Steve,

No I haven't watched "Blackhat". Given your review and that of others, I guess I won't have time for this sci-fict.

IMO, funny stuff like those you mentioned in sci-fict movies are often caused by lack of research by screenwriters or carelessness of directors/producers. All is avoidable really I think.

I actually watched the 2014 movie 黄金年代 “The Golden Era" while on a long-haul flight to the Far East. I was quite impressed by Tong Wei's role of the short-lived novelist Xiao Hong.

The movie prompted me to re-read Xiao's famous 《呼兰河传》on the way back.


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ysun  Identity Verified
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《色,戒》男女主角的原型 Aug 14, 2015

David Lin wrote:

爱情、英雄

偶然读到。

令人想起以前看过的电影 《色,戒》里面的梁朝伟和汤唯。

“爱情不会出自平白无故,英雄也不会天生而成。”

恕我愚昧,不知 David 如何会从爱情、英雄想起《色戒》里面的梁朝伟和汤唯?在此电影中,梁朝伟饰演的是大汉奸易默成,而易默成的原型是日伪特务头子丁默邨。我认为,那些死于丁默邨屠刀之下的无数中华志士,包括电影中王佳芝的原型郑苹如,才是英雄、烈士!

现在已是东京时间8月15日。有空不如去看看 History Channel。

76号特工魔头:《色戒》男主角原型
http://www.jianshu.com/p/0a7379cbf455

郑苹如:《色戒》女主角原型,美女间谍的真实人生
http://www.15yan.com/topic/dian-ying-yu-li-shi/ljaU6A14GbR/


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ysun  Identity Verified
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郑苹如的未婚夫王汉勋 Aug 15, 2015

《色戒》中易默成与王佳芝之间的所谓爱情,纯粹是原作者与电影导演的凭空想象。为了赢得卖座率,那庸俗的电影导演杜撰编排了几场床戏。明眼人一眼就可看出,那根本不是什么爱情,而是易默成对王佳之肆无忌惮的暴力侵犯。《色戒》这部电影在美国上映时,许多美国人都觉得那些情节太过分,不堪入目!王佳芝与大汉奸易默成不共戴天。她怎么可能会爱上他?

根据下面这篇回忆录,王佳芝原型郑苹如的未婚夫是空军中校王汉勋。这一事实也得到了郑苹如胞妹郑静芝(又名郑天如)以及王汉勋其他袍泽的证实。郑苹如与王汉勋之间的爱情,才是英雄之间的爱情。《色戒》这部电影不但严重地歪曲了郑苹如烈士的光辉形象,也亵渎了她的英灵!

http://www.flyingtiger-cacw.com/new_page_683.htm
空運隊隊長 王漢勳

鄭蘋如是張愛玲小說《色·戒》中女主人公的原型。她是王漢勳的未婚妻。徐霞梅說,王漢勳當時就讀上海大同大學理工科,應校長胡敦厚女兒的邀請,參加了一次同學聚會,在聚會中認識了鄭蘋如,鄭蘋如是當時上海有名的名媛。兩人在聚會上一見鍾情,此後兩人互贈了照片。王漢勳在贈給鄭蘋如的照片背面親筆寫上“送給我最最親愛的人,蘋如你。”鄭蘋如在贈給心上人的照片背面同樣寫著“最最親愛的漢勳——你的蘋如”。


1939年春,王漢勳曾兩次寫信約鄭蘋如去香港結婚,但國難當頭,鄭蘋如一再推遲婚約,兩人相約抗戰勝利後再步入婚禮殿堂。但是,在暗殺日偽特務頭子丁默邨時,鄭蘋如身份暴露被抓。1940年2月,她被秘密槍殺,年僅23歲。因為知道王漢勳深愛著鄭蘋如,身邊的好友都不敢把這個消息告訴他,直到鄭蘋如犧牲兩年後,王漢勳才得知鄭蘋如過世的消息。知道真相後的王漢勳悲傷欲絕,他說:“我寧願她移情別戀也不要她死,我要她好好地活著。”此後,他便一門心思地撲在了工作中上。


王漢勳就任空運隊隊長時,鄭蘋如已經犧牲(鄭在1940年2月在上海徐家匯火車站被汪偽政權槍決)。在這之前,他曾兩次去信要鄭蘋如回來和他結婚,鄭當時正一心一意投身于除奸大業,回信說“等抗戰勝利後再談結婚的事”。這些事王一直守口如瓶,從不向任何人提起,他後來也沒有再找女友。當時空運隊每週有兩次和成都華西壩大學區的女生舉行聯歡PARTY,他也很少參加。王漢勳遇難時只有32歲,英年早逝,令人惋惜。當時在兵荒馬亂中也無法搜尋他的遺體,只在成都磨盤山空軍烈士墓為他樹立了一塊墓碑,後來移到南京紫金山空軍烈士墓。


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ysun  Identity Verified
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一門忠烈 Aug 17, 2015

以前在国内时,只知赵一曼,不知郑苹如。看看这些文章和照片,可让我们对郑苹如及其家人有更深的了解:



色戒原型——美女间谍郑苹如和家人一组照片:
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_5a6e6a690101ca7d.html

《色·戒》王佳芝原型雕像揭幕 力求為英雄正名:
http://www.chinanews.com/cul/news/2009/06-07/1723521.shtml
福寿园内一副手书挽联吸引了记者的目光。一九六六年一月五日,郑苹如的母亲木村花子在台北与世长辞,蒋介石挽以“教忠有方”纪念之。如今,郑苹如的侄子郑国基征得郑苹如胞妹郑天如等同意,将这一挽联赠送给福寿园人文纪念馆。

据郑国基介绍,当年郑苹如被捕后,日伪找到她的双亲以条件要挟。郑苹如的父亲郑钺及她的日本母亲都不愿意劝降女儿,而她的哥哥郑海澄则在一九四四年的一次对日空战中牺牲。时人有评:郑钺守节,苹如尽忠,海澄成仁,郑母明义。因此,当这位辨忠奸、明大义的日本妇女去世时,蒋介石特挽以此书。

一門忠烈—色戒背後的真實故事:
http://music.douban.com/review/1290177/
鄭被捕後,汪精衛、周佛海的老婆以世交長輩的身份親自勸降,鄭蘋如不為所動,汪精衛又以老同志的身份勸勸鄭蘋如父親鄭英伯出任偽職,鄭英伯說:「我兒女甚多,不在乎少一個。」日籍母親也深明大義,鼓勵丈夫拒做漢奸。


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David Lin  Identity Verified
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电影、娱乐 Aug 17, 2015

ysun wrote:

David Lin wrote:

爱情、英雄

偶然读到。

令人想起以前看过的电影 《色,戒》里面的梁朝伟和汤唯。

“爱情不会出自平白无故,英雄也不会天生而成。”

恕我愚昧,不知 David 如何会从爱情、英雄想起《色戒》里面的梁朝伟和汤唯?在此电影中,梁朝伟饰演的是大汉奸易默成,而易默成的原型是日伪特务头子丁默邨。我认为,那些死于丁默邨屠刀之下的无数中华志士,包括电影中王佳芝的原型郑苹如,才是英雄、烈士!

现在已是东京时间8月15日。有空不如去看看 History Channel。

76号特工魔头:《色戒》男主角原型
http://www.jianshu.com/p/0a7379cbf455

郑苹如:《色戒》女主角原型,美女间谍的真实人生
http://www.15yan.com/topic/dian-ying-yu-li-shi/ljaU6A14GbR/



上周末趁伦敦天气暖和,到郊外逛逛,松弛神经,回来后看到我那只有短短三句的阅报后感的帖子,竟然会引起 ysun 那么多联想,也是一个惊奇。

其实我看电影好像郊游一样,只是用来娱乐并松弛神经。对于里面的历史交待是否合乎事实,很少而且也没时间去理会。

理由很简单,因为所有电影除非注明是由真人真事改编,好像最近获奥斯卡奨的 Selma,是关于民权领袖马丁路德金博士的生平事迹。 如果我有空的话,我也会看看它的真实性有多高。

不然,很多电影都是从小说改编而成。而小说家为要吸引广大读者的好奇心,都会将一些历史(或野史)和人物背景(甚至自己的经历)加入小说中成为内容的一部分、或成为故事发展的主要骨干、或作为故事的分支。所以,其中真真、假假,实在非常人能轻易搞清楚。

《色,戒》也不例外。

我记得当时 (也有七、八年前吧)看这个电影时是从爱情片的角度来欣赏。到最近从报上读到一位新进武侠小说家谈到要用中国古代的刺客和爱情来作其新出版的小说题材,我才记起由汤唯饰演的女刺客(也算现代侠士吧)以及她在戏里的爱情观。

当然,很多观众会寻根究底以历史角度去欣赏这个电影,但是应该没有人曾说那是一部历史记录片。所以去考究一部商业艺术电影里面的情节是否真确、是否切合历史性,只会徒劳无功。

何况,正如 Steve 在那个谈电影的贴题里曾说 “don't read in too much”。是一个很好的建议!

至于历史这回事,令我想起 QHE 的帖子里引述著名作家、小说家、诗人 James Joyce (1882-1941) 在其作品 ‘Ulysses’ 《尤利西斯》写道:

"History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake."

“历史是一塲恶梦,我想从恶梦中醒过来。” (个人拙译)

Life is short. Just relax and enjoy films when not translating.

与各位共勉之。


[Edited at 2015-08-17 15:06 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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言论自由,各抒己见 Aug 17, 2015

David Lin wrote:

ysun wrote:

David Lin wrote:

爱情、英雄

偶然读到。

令人想起以前看过的电影 《色,戒》里面的梁朝伟和汤唯。

“爱情不会出自平白无故,英雄也不会天生而成。”

恕我愚昧,不知 David 如何会从爱情、英雄想起《色戒》里面的梁朝伟和汤唯?在此电影中,梁朝伟饰演的是大汉奸易默成,而易默成的原型是日伪特务头子丁默邨。我认为,那些死于丁默邨屠刀之下的无数中华志士,包括电影中王佳芝的原型郑苹如,才是英雄、烈士!

现在已是东京时间8月15日。有空不如去看看 History Channel。

76号特工魔头:《色戒》男主角原型
http://www.jianshu.com/p/0a7379cbf455

郑苹如:《色戒》女主角原型,美女间谍的真实人生
http://www.15yan.com/topic/dian-ying-yu-li-shi/ljaU6A14GbR/



上周末趁伦敦天气暖和,到郊外逛逛,松弛神经,回来后看到我那只有短短三句的阅报后感的帖子,竟然会引起 ysun 那么多联想,也是一个惊奇。

其实我看电影好像郊游一样,只是用来娱乐并松弛神经。对于里面的历史交待是否合乎事实,很少而且也没时间去理会。

理由很简单,因为所有电影除非注明是由真人真事改编,好像最近获奥斯卡奨的 Selma,是关于民权领袖马丁路德金博士的生平事迹。 如果我有空的话,我也会看看它的真实性有多高。

不然,很多电影都是从小说改编而成。而小说家为要吸引广大读者的好奇心,都会将一些历史(或野史)和人物背景(甚至自己的经历)加入小说中成为内容的一部分、或成为故事发展的主要骨干、或作为故事的分支。所以,其中真真、假假,实在非常人能轻易搞清楚。

《色,戒》也不例外。

我记得当时 (也有七、八年前吧)看这个电影时是从爱情片的角度来欣赏。到最近从报上读到一位新进武侠小说家谈到要用中国古代的刺客和爱情来作其新出版的小说题材,我才记起由汤唯饰演的女刺客(也算现代侠士吧)以及她在戏里的爱情观。

当然,很多观众会寻根究底以历史角度去欣赏这个电影,但是应该没有人曾说那是一部历史记录片。所以去考究一部商业艺术电影里面的情节是否真确、是否切合历史性,只会徒劳无功。

何况,正如 Steve 在那个谈电影的贴题里曾说 “don't read in too much”。是一个很好的建议!

至于历史这回事,令我想起 QHE 的帖子里引述著名作家、小说家、诗人 James Joyce (1882-1941) 在其作品 ‘Ulysses’ 《尤利西斯》写道:

"History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake."

“历史是一个恶梦,我想从恶梦中醒过来。” (个人拙译)

Life is short. Just relax and enjoy films when not translating.

与各位共勉之。

David,

你说错了。并非是你“那只有短短三句的阅报后感的帖子”,竟然会引起我那么多联想,而是《色,戒》这部电影引起了我的一些联想。你可以从爱情、英雄想起《色戒》里面的梁朝伟和汤唯,难道我就不可以从《色戒》里面的男女主角想起其原型大汉奸丁默邨和抗日英雄郑苹如,就不可以把我看到的有关文章贴出来与别人分享吗?同样,你对历史可以有你的看法,我也可以有我的看法。我认为,学点历史可以避免因对历史一无所知而犯下可笑的错误。

不过,不管《色戒》里面男女主角的原型是谁,不管电影情节是否符合历史事实,在此电影中梁朝伟饰演的毕竟是大汉奸易默成。 你从“英雄”、“侠士”想起《色戒》里面的汤唯,这很合乎常理。但是,你如何会从“英雄”想起《色戒》里面的梁朝伟呢?难道说,你对梁朝伟在此电影中所演角色的性质还另有高见吗?

[Edited at 2015-08-18 05:55 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Lust, Caution Aug 17, 2015

David,

I for one appreciate very much Yueyin doing the research and providing the facts surrounding 郑苹如's adventure and her real-life story. She is truly a heroine and beauty combined in one.

I had to re-watch the DVD to jog my memory. The character played by 梁朝伟 indeed was a traitor, the villain of the movie.

BTW, what I meant by not reading too much into something is about the translation of the movie title "Fast and Furious". I thought something along the lines of "疾驰猛飞" would be much better than reading "激情" into it.


[Edited at 2015-08-18 00:13 GMT]


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Kansas City Public Library Aug 19, 2015





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_Public_Library

"The Community Bookshelf [Central Library Parking Garage] is a striking feature of Kansas City's downtown. It runs along the south wall of the Central Library's parking garage on 10th Street between Wyandotte Street and Baltimore Avenue. The book spines, which measure approximately 25 feet by 9 feet, are made of signboard mylar. The shelf showcases 22 titles reflecting a wide variety of reading interests as suggested by Kansas City readers and then selected by The Kansas City Public Library Board of Trustees."


The shelf showcases 22 titles:

• Kansas City Stories Volumes 1 and 2
• Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
• Silent Spring by Rachel Carson
• O Pioneers! by Willa Cather
• Cien Años de Soledad (One Hundred Years of Solitude) by Gabriel García Márquez
• Their Eyes Were Watching God by Zora Neale Hurston
• Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury
• The Republic by Plato
• The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
Tao Te Ching by Lau Tsu
• The Collected Poems of Langston Hughes by Langston Hughes
• Black Elk Speaks by Black Elk, as told to John G. Neihardt
• Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison
• To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee
• Journals of the Expedition by Lewis and Clark
• Undaunted Courage: Meriwether Lewis, Thomas Jefferson,
  And The Opening Of The American West by Stephen Ambrose
• The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien
• A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens
• Charlotte's Web by E.B. White
• Romeo and Juliet by William Shakespeare
• Truman by David G. McCullough
• a volume of children's books


[Edited at 2015-08-19 23:53 GMT]

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David Lin  Identity Verified
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曲解 Aug 20, 2015

ysun wrote: 言论自由,各抒己见

David,

你说错了。并非是你“那只有短短三句的阅报后感的帖子”,竟然会引起我那么多联想,而是《色,戒》这部电影引起了我的一些联想。你可以从爱情、英雄想起《色戒》里面的梁朝伟和汤唯,难道我就不可以从《色戒》里面的男女主角想起其原型大汉奸丁默邨和抗日英雄郑苹如,就不可以把我看到的有关文章贴出来与别人分享吗?同样,你对历史可以有你的看法,我也可以有我的看法。我认为,学点历史可以避免因对历史一无所知而犯下可笑的错误。

不过,不管《色戒》里面男女主角的原型是谁,不管电影情节是否符合历史事实,在此电影中梁朝伟饰演的毕竟是大汉奸易默成。 你从“英雄”、“侠士”想起《色戒》里面的汤唯,这很合乎常理。但是,你如何会从“英雄”想起《色戒》里面的梁朝伟呢?难道说,你对梁朝伟在此电影中所演角色的性质还另有高见吗?

[Edited at 2015-08-18 05:55 GMT]


ysun,

谢谢你的解释.

我从来没有说过从 “英雄” 想起梁朝伟在电影中的角色。你曲解了我的话以表达自己的想法。Don't put words in my mouth.

What I wrote is as follows and I quote:

偶然读到。

令人想起以前看过的电影 《色,戒》里面的梁朝伟和汤唯。

“爱情不会出自平白无故,英雄也不会天生而成。”


可能我的随想笔法看似简单却无意中沾上了一点深奥的意境,一时令人难以明白。

既然你不断追问,就让我解释一下。

在上帖我已经说明七、八年前看这部电影时,是抱著看爱情片而非历史片去欣赏同娱乐自己。所以我是从 ‘爱情’ 想到梁朝伟(奸人)和汤唯(作为刺客/侠士)两个对立者在戏中发展的爱情交错综合的关系。

以后你如果读到我的帖子有不明白之处,请不吝提问,我都会尽量马上解答。

谢谢合作。


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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色 戒 Aug 20, 2015

David,

Thanks a lot for the clarification. To tell you the truth, I too was confused as to what made you think of 梁朝伟 (in "Lust, Caution") when it comes to "love and heroism". I'm glad that you cleared the air; so we can all move forward on this issue.

Still, I'd like to thank Yueyin again for his research on the historical facts behind the main characters of this movie and posting them to our forum. It gave me much needed insight watching the movie the second time around.


[Edited at 2015-08-20 22:07 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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I didn’t put words in your mouth Aug 20, 2015

David Lin wrote:

ysun,

谢谢你的解释.

我从来没有说过从 “英雄” 想起梁朝伟在电影中的角色。你曲解了我的话以表达自己的想法。Don't put words in my mouth.

What I wrote is as follows and I quote:

偶然读到。

令人想起以前看过的电影 《色,戒》里面的梁朝伟和汤唯。

“爱情不会出自平白无故,英雄也不会天生而成。”


可能我的随想笔法看似简单却无意中沾上了一点深奥的意境,一时令人难以明白。

David,

I don’t think I misinterpreted what you said and put words in your mouth. This is your original post:

David Lin wrote:

爱情、英雄

偶然读到。

令人想起以前看过的电影 《色,戒》里面的梁朝伟和汤唯。

“爱情不会出自平白无故,英雄也不会天生而成。”

However, I think everything has been made very clear. Further argument over this issue will not make a lot more sense. Enough is enough. Let’s move on as Steve suggested. Nevertheless, if you think you are not done yet and want to continue this argument, I have no objection.



[Edited at 2015-08-20 21:32 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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Move forward Aug 20, 2015

wherestip wrote:

David,

Thanks a lot for the clarification. To tell you the truth, I too was confused with what made you think of 梁朝伟 when it comes to "love and heroism". I'm glad that you cleared the air, and we can all move forward on this issue.

Steve,

谢谢!其实明眼人心里都很明白这是怎么回事儿。如果我所介绍的背景资料对大家理解那种“深奥的意境”略有帮助的话,我将感到很欣慰。

“爱情不会出自平白无故,英雄也不会天生而成” 这种话,北京人叫做大实话。如果用水来比喻的话,就是白开水!


[Edited at 2015-08-20 21:37 GMT]


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David Lin  Identity Verified
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七月初七 Aug 20, 2015

今日是農曆七月初七,七夕,是中國情人節 。

https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/七夕

特節錄 《詩經·國風·豳風·七月》與大家一起應節:

七月流火,九月授衣。
一之日觱發,二之日栗烈。
無衣無褐,何以卒歲!
三之日於耜,四之日擧趾。
同我婦子,饁彼南畝。
田畯至喜。

七月流火,九月授衣。
春日載陽,有鳴倉庚。
女執懿筐,遵彼微行,爰求柔桑。
春日遲遲,采蘩祁祁。
女心傷悲,殆及公子同歸。

祝各位同仁 七巧節 快樂!


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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NOAA: July hottest month on record, and 2015 could be hottest year Aug 20, 2015

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/20/us/noaa-global-climate-analysis/index.html



Story highlights
      July was the hottest month on record, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration says
      NOAA predicts 2015 could be the hottest year on record



Data from NOAA dates back to 1880, but it is possible that July was the hottest month in at least 4,000 years. Climate research suggests these are the hottest temperatures the Earth has seen since the Bronze Age.

The prediction for 2015 becoming the hottest year on record is based on observed temperatures so far, plus the coming El Niño event.




[Edited at 2015-08-20 20:11 GMT]


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QHE
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有可能 。。。 Aug 20, 2015

ysun wrote:

“爱情不会出自平白无故,英雄也不会天生而成” 这种话,北京人叫做大实话。如果用水来比喻的话,就是白开水!


“爱情会出自平白无故,英雄也会天生而成” – 自来水

“爱情出自平白无故,英雄天生而成” - 泉水


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