| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | The elephant in the room/Behold the KudoZ shenanigans Thread poster: Korana Lasić
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neilmac wrote: William Bowley wrote:
A very good post, Korana, which highlights many of the issues with the KudoZ system.
It's a shame, because in theory it's a helpful system that works for and benefits everyone, yet in practice it's unfortunately quite far from that.
Let's not forget the following points, from my experience:
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6) The same residents' references on the forums to how busy they are, how they always have so much work, and so on, yet they are the only ever-presents in the KudoZ system waiting to pounce in an attempt to gain points.
All this, as you highlighted, ultimately results in a well-intended system, a supposed translation 'universe', that ends up as a minefield of bad translations and a clique of destructive and rude contributors.
I had expected this type of environment before I first provided some answers during a quiet period. I was sadly proven right and discouraged from contributing much in future. I can't comment on what goes on in other pairs, but I tend to agree to some extent with most of the points William makes about the ES-EN forum, although none of them is the end of the world IMHO. However, I must admit I thought point 6 might be alluding to me, because I'm more or less always pretty busy and may have mentioned it on more than one occasion, although I usually find time to have a quick look at kudoz once or twice a day because I look on it as sort of like a quiz, and I'm a keen quizzer. I also find it useful to brainstorm colleagues for opinions, because since last March I don't usually have anyone around to bounce my ideas off of. At the end of the day, I'd say it's a bit of a curate's egg, but I'm still glad it's there.
Thank you for chiming in.
| | | | Jeewon Bae 
South Korea
Local time: 23:50
Member (2018)
English to Korean
| A problem indded. | Feb 9, 2021 |
KudoZ points heavily affect placings in the translator list.
Yes, no one asked us to participate, but in my case, my ranking WAS associated with the number of client-reach-outs, and as a result, my income.
I think Korana has a point, and there might be a need to revamping the KudoZ point system and/or the translator ranking system.
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Jeewon Bae wrote:
KudoZ points heavily affect placings in the translator list.
Yes, no one asked us to participate, but in my case, my ranking WAS associated with the number of client-reach-outs, and as a result, my income.
I think Korana has a point, and there might be a need to revamping the KudoZ point system and/or the translator ranking system.
Apparently, it's the parameter for placement, or so I read online and from people who have been freelancing trough ProZ for many years. Even when discovered, unless a PM is aware of the fact that one of the oldest and likely the best market places for translators and outsources is relying on a problematic and easily-gamed-by-hacks system as the parameter for esteem and placement, everyone who simply has no time to participate in unpaid work is at a disadvantage.
Let's forget for a moment the very problematic things that go on there. Some of us honestly cannot afford to ignore paid projects to do other people's research so they can finish their paid work.
Can we just leave? Yah sure. I am well aware of the fact that nobody's keeping me hostage here. Can we also say something about it in a measured way supported by rational arguments? I should hope so.
Thank you for saying something. Last night I was reading ProZ reviews online and KudoZ (and how it affected placement) was the number one complaint by people who otherwise had nothing but praise for ProZ and say they've been on ProZ for a decade. Yet, people are reluctant to get involved here. I wonder why?
[Edited at 2021-02-09 10:41 GMT]
| | | | | A few thoughts | Feb 9, 2021 |
Korana Lasić wrote:
everyone who simply has no time to participate in unpaid work is at a disadvantage.
Some of us honestly cannot afford to ignore paid projects to do other people's research so they can finish their paid work.
Well if you're busy, why does it matter if you're disadvantaged by the points system?
Remember that this site is always going to be primarily a source of work for beginners and low-end translators. With some exceptions, anyone experienced who is any good will have enough regular clients that they don't need any more work. I've never had work through ProZ and I participate in KudoZ partly for fun and partly out of community spirit. I really don't care about the points. In fact I normally put my answer in the discussion because I can't be arsed to find supporting evidence for my pearls of wisdom, and sometimes someone else will then post the same answer to claim the points. Whatever. What does it matter to me?
But still, it isn't perfect, it can be frustrating at times, and I'm sure some improvements could be made:
1. Points system
Basing the rankings not on points but on average-points-per-answer would help get stronger answers. It would deal with the problem of the literalists and dictionary bashers and scattergun answerers who guess at almost every question and strike lucky every now and again, and the people who piggyback off existing answers with trivial variations.
2. Moderation
Active moderation to vet the chosen answers would help negate the chums system, weed out innocently chosen wrong answers, and reduce general argy-bargy in the busier and more argumentative language pairs. But how would you choose who to do this?
[Edited at 2021-02-09 13:57 GMT]
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| If you don't get work through here than I understand your relaxed attitude | Feb 9, 2021 |
Chris S wrote: Korana Lasić wrote:
everyone who simply has no time to participate in unpaid work is at a disadvantage.
Some of us honestly cannot afford to ignore paid projects to do other people's research so they can finish their paid work.
Well if you're busy, why does it matter if you're disadvantaged by the points system? Remember that this site is always going to be primarily a source of work for beginners and low-end translators. With some exceptions, anyone experienced who is any good will have enough regular clients that they don't need any more work. I've never had work through ProZ and I participate in KudoZ partly for fun and partly out of community spirit. I really don't care about the points. In fact I normally put my answer in the discussion because I can't be arsed to find supporting evidence for my pearls of wisdom, and sometimes someone else will then post the same answer to claim the points. Whatever. What does it matter to me? But still, it isn't perfect, it can be frustrating at times, and I'm sure some improvements could be made: 1. Points system Basing the rankings not on points but on average-points-per-answer would help get stronger answers. It would deal with the problem of the literalists and dictionary bashers and scattergun answerers who guess at almost every question and strike lucky every now and again, and the people who piggyback off existing answers with trivial variations. 2. Moderation Active moderation to vet the chosen answers would help negate the chums system, weed out innocently chosen wrong answers, and reduce general argy-bargy in the busier and more argumentative language pairs. But how would you choose who to do this? [Edited at 2021-02-09 13:57 GMT]
There's a part of me that wishes I never got involved, believe me.
Well if you're busy, why does it matter if you're disadvantaged by the points system?
I get all my work trough here and trough word of mouth that starts with people who found me here. Maybe you're right maybe it doesn't matter. I don't really know as I am definitely giving up on improving my visibility trough KudoZ.
So, this place is it for me. I actually care what happens here professionally. Now that I understand that some of you use it as a social media platform for translators it all makes more sense to me. I understand some of the people's attitudes better. I guess people came here for potential work and ended up staying for the company?
I understand your point about beginners and people willing to charge amateur rates. What I need is to have a LinkedIn page like a regular adult but I have personal reasons why I am not looking forward to networking with my past colleagues and/or employers. It isn't bad references related. To be fair to me I don't think any of them could say I am anything but very talented interpreter or transcreator/translator. I just don't want them to say anything ever again, not to me. Lol
Maybe I was just sleep-deprived. My dad has been very ill...I haven't slept much for about 3 days now. Sleep deprivation is the cause of many perhaps problematic decisions. It might be the reason I started this thread in the first place. I won't be able to decide until I catch up on sleep.
I better go. It was nice idea-ing with you, Chris. When I start making nouns into present participles in my head it's time to stop trying to chat with people. I do like your last suggestions. That might be it.
Edit: A nounal verb. It's like an inverted gerund. Haha. I really better go.
[Edited at 2021-02-09 16:01 GMT]
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