| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Is this a recession? Thread poster: Helena Grahn
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XX789 (X) 
Netherlands
Local time: 07:15
English to Dutch
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I'd like to add that my whole speech of course does not apply to people who do translation on the side. But those people normally don't complain about rates anyway, as translation is rather a hobby for them than a job. Not something they depend on.
| | | | Vladimír Hoffman
Slovakia
Local time: 07:15
Member (2009)
English to Slovak
+ ...
| I do not know situation elsewhere, | Jan 15, 2012 |
but colleagues in my country and in the Czech Republic whom I know used to earn higher amounts than average wage (current situation is probably somewhat worse, but employees also lost many of their benefits).
As for That makes you no better than the average girl behind a cash register. I'd never outsource translations to someone for whom translation is "just a job". - Why?? Do you choose hypermarket for your shoppings based on if tellers are passionate in their jobs? Althoug... See more but colleagues in my country and in the Czech Republic whom I know used to earn higher amounts than average wage (current situation is probably somewhat worse, but employees also lost many of their benefits).
As for That makes you no better than the average girl behind a cash register. I'd never outsource translations to someone for whom translation is "just a job". - Why?? Do you choose hypermarket for your shoppings based on if tellers are passionate in their jobs? Although I still like (sometimes love) linguistic part of my job, what passion can I find in ten thousandth agreement, which I translate? I am professional and I try to do professional job for my clients. And I am proud of it. But I can not call it passion.
As for marketing part of the business, I consider it as necessity, but I have never liked it. I am still trying to contact new agencies, but somewhere they offer such ridiculous conditions (in December I contacted two agencies that initially were excited with my experience. Then they offered me low-end rate, less than one half of the rate charged by them to end-customers) that I am rather discouraged. Certainly, I got many interesting information after I started to use Proz more intesively in this year, but, frankly, rates offered by foreign agencies are not much better than those offered by Slovak ones. However, I keep trying.
As for Reading your postings, I get the impression translation is more for you than just a job. - Thank you for nice words. Although I do not agree with all points you have mentioned in your initial post (it seems to me that you a bit overemphasize marketing and technical aspects of business), your enthusiasm is really impressive. I wish it would be also infectious.
Loek van Kooten wrote: For 18 years of my career I have never ever earned amounts as low as average wage,
not even talking about minimum one. I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about translators in general. but try not to condemn those for whom translation is just a way of earning money, not way of living. I like my job, but its only a job, nothing more. That makes you no better than the average girl behind a cash register. I'd never outsource translations to someone for whom translation is "just a job". Where's your passion? Reading your postings, I get the impression translation is more for you than just a job. Cherish that passion and let it grow. [Edited at 2012-01-15 11:11 GMT]
[Edited at 2012-01-15 12:40 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Vladimír Hoffman
Slovakia
Local time: 07:15
Member (2009)
English to Slovak
+ ...
| Two or three times | Jan 15, 2012 |
would be more correct, but the question is really interesting. It would deserve separate thread.
Siegfried Armbruster wrote:
It is interesting to see how many contributors in this forum are talking about competing with other translators and all they mention is rates.
This makes me wonder what perception these people have of colleagues charging 5-10 times the rates that are mentioned here.
Do you believe they were just lucky? Do you believe that they just found stupid customers who are willing to pay obscene rates and that it is just bad luck that these customers did not contact you?
It might make sense to stop wailing about low rates and to spend some time analyzing why some translators seem to earn more money and how these people seem to succeed in this "competition" without continuously lowering their rates.
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:15
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| Why are people offered low rates? | Jan 15, 2012 |
Another question I ask myself is why some people are being offered unworkable rates at all? The ProZ forum is littered with stories of scams (an entire section dedicated to it) and translators being offered work at pitifully low rates. Now why is it that I've never received a scam e-mail and I reckon I can probably count on one hand how many times I've been contacted out of the blue by a potential client offering me work for chicken feed? I don't actually know the answer but would love to.
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| Still concentrating on rates - why? | Jan 15, 2012 |
Vladimír Hoffman wrote:
Two or three times
In this thread you can find the following statements:
Just this week I got 3 ridiculous offers, one at 0.02 for EU documents, another of 0.55 and another of 0.06 for medical translations.
On the contrary, the USD 0.02 - 0.04 per word jobs seem to be on the rise
Ever since I started working for my agency- nearly four years ago - they have paid me an average of €0.03 per word (sometimes slightly more, sometimes - although I hate to say it - slightly less!).
...there are still translators, who are satisfied with prices as low as EUR 0,026 charged for steady inflow of works (about 50,000 words per month).
Considering the above mentioned rates I'll stick with my comment "5-10 times higher" and I wont't even mention the translators I know charging EUR 2.50 to 3.50 per line (55 characters) and being paid these rates.
[Edited at 2012-01-15 15:53 GMT]
| | | | Vladimír Hoffman
Slovakia
Local time: 07:15
Member (2009)
English to Slovak
+ ...
Siegfried Armbruster wrote: per line?!? It is about 0,48 EUR per word! I have never ever heard (or dreamed of) about such rates, in which language combination and specialization they can be charged? I can accept that there are translators charging as much as EUR 0,1-0,12 per word, even in my language combination, although even those rates exceed statutory rates applied by most sworn translators in my country. But I strongly doubt about general applicability or transferability of experience of very high-end specialists to business of common non-specialised translator of minor language. Sorry, but then we could also consider about rates as low as EUR 0.01 per word as being standard in the industry. Extremes are extremes, we could not take them into consideration. Vladimír Hoffman wrote:
Two or three times
In this thread you can find the following statements:
Just this week I got 3 ridiculous offers, one at 0.02 for EU documents, another of 0.55 and another of 0.06 for medical translations.
On the contrary, the USD 0.02 - 0.04 per word jobs seem to be on the rise
Ever since I started working for my agency- nearly four years ago - they have paid me an average of €0.03 per word (sometimes slightly more, sometimes - although I hate to say it - slightly less!).
...there are still translators, who are satisfied with prices as low as EUR 0,026 charged for steady inflow of works (about 50,000 words per month).
Considering the above mentioned rates I'll stick with my comment "5-10 times higher" and I wont't even mention the translators I know charging EUR 2.50 to 3.50 per line (55 characters) and being paid these rates. [Edited at 2012-01-15 13:13 GMT]
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:15
Hebrew to English
| Agree - there are other ways to be competitive | Jan 15, 2012 |
Rates alone are a rather crude tool to be competitive...but I believe the main thrust of the thread turned towards rates when one poster claimed:
"Refusing a 0,06 job [in a recession] may be a mistake"
| | | | Helena Grahn
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:15
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Ty Kendall wrote:
Rates alone are a rather crude tool to be competitive...but I believe the main thrust of the thread turned towards rates when one poster claimed:
"Refusing a 0,06 job [in a recession] may be a mistake"
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Loek van Kooten wrote: By my calculations you're translating 5,000 words a day, Monday to Friday 12 months of the year without a single day off? I'm certainly not arguing about your rate, just querying if you meant 150K as a total? 4600 these days to be precise, and indeed, I only take time off between X-mas and New Year; the rest of the money I generate teaching Japanese to students and/or by smart use of CAT tools (sometimes you can translate a few hundred words by pressing just one button, especially if you manage your TMs better than most clients). I totally understand not everybody is willing to put so many hours in their work (though 40 hours per week really for just 4600 words per day isn't that much - the average entrepeneur works 60-80 hours a week); but only half of those hours will make you 75 K already... [Edited at 2012-01-15 11:17 GMT]
really, you earn that much because you work a lot... if you worked normal hours, you would earn around 80 k, which is not that impressive. 0,10 eur/word is a pretty average rate these days. So, your claims are somewhat misleading. Correct?
| | | | XX789 (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 07:15
English to Dutch
+ ...
really, you earn that much because you work a lot...
I don't call 40 hours per week a lot, to be honest.
Do you choose hypermarket for your shoppings based on if tellers are passionate in their jobs?
Hypermarkets sell mass products. Translations are not mass products. And I don't work with clients who consider them as such.
Although I still like (sometimes love) linguistic part of my job, what passion can I find in ten thousandth agreement, which I translate? I am professional and I try to do professional job for my clients. And I am proud of it. But I can not call it passion.
Point taken. I happen to translate about games, a subject which I absolutely love (I think you can imagine why). Maybe there are certain subjects you are interested in? You could slowly move your client base to that subject, step by step. One way to do this is offering discounts on those subjects, and then, once you've got your subject client base established, raising the rates for all other subjects. The next step is raising your rate for your subject client base.
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Loek van Kooten wrote: really, you earn that much because you work a lot... I don't call 40 hours per week a lot, to be honest.
Well, no, but you work every single day apart from a few days between Christmas and New Year... 
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Hi Helena,
What is your experience? Have you noticed anything different lately?
FWIW, my income has progressively risen since 2005. 2011 has proved no exception. And 2012 is off to a manic start...
Also, despite what many have been saying, I did actually manage to raise my rates towards the end of the year, so I wouldn't panic just yet.
This quiet period could prove to be just that, and you may be wishing you made the most of it in a month or two... I know some colleagues are still very busy too. Try and remain optimistic and I would advise against dropping rates as it will probably prove impossible to raise them again. And, in my personal experience, customers paying low rates are generally those with whom you have least agreeable working partnership and the most payment issues.
Kate
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Gad Kohenov
Israel
Local time: 08:15
English to Hebrew
+ ...
Problem is that some of the good translators agree to work for less than before.
They are the ones to blame. If all good translators refuse to take work for less than a certain price per word, translation bureaux will see a decrease in the quality of the translations they receive and will have to deal with complaints from their clients.
The problems with translators Tye is that we are not ogranized and too individualistic.
We answer Kudoz questions by amateur translators, who u... See more Problem is that some of the good translators agree to work for less than before.
They are the ones to blame. If all good translators refuse to take work for less than a certain price per word, translation bureaux will see a decrease in the quality of the translations they receive and will have to deal with complaints from their clients.
The problems with translators Tye is that we are not ogranized and too individualistic.
We answer Kudoz questions by amateur translators, who use our answers to enhance their work and get more work from the satisfied clients.
Recession? it will last from 2008 till 2018 (just like the one of 1929). When I said 2008 is the first stage and a second one will follow nobody took my forum post seriously. Maybe now that the second stage begun (Eurozone is desintegrating at the seams, Administration in Washington is printing money as if there is no tomorrow! Quantitaive Easing (cock and bull stories!). This time the printing press is not going to save the world.
Prices go up and they want us to work for free or half free! Your bills go up and will keep going up. Tent protests as we had here in Israel last summer are going to spread all over the world. Food is going to cost a fortune! where would you finance this from? by selling yourselves short?
We are not "upgraded typists". If we don't stand for our rights the hoggish capitalism is going to destroy us with it.
Those of us who are young can make a cereer change. Hi Tech anyone?
The Golden Age of translation was during the Arab Empire (Cordoba, Sicily, Bagdhad). These days will not return.
They try very had (Google and others) to invent machine to take your place!
Translation is seen as a weekend work to supplement your regular income.
A work for students who are trying to make both ends meet.
Until this image they force on us is not changed. Nothing will change.
Whenever someone offers me a price I don't like I send him to amateurs. Including neighbours and "friends". Teach the to respect you or they will trample over you.
They also invented CAT tools to reduce our pay by "repetitions". I sold the CAT tool I had (for a big loss) but got my freedom again. I don't use CAT tools! If the prospective client does not like it, that's their problem.
I worked 25 years to hone my skills and I don't intend to compete with newbies!
When they come with "Best Price" or (recently "Very best price"). My answer was "go to New Delhi" and don't come again. Now I don't bother answering anything that comes with the magical formula "best price".
We have to unite! Today it' a global world. Communication by SKYPE is easy and still free.
"United we Stand, Divided we Hang (fall)! ▲ Collapse
| | | | XX789 (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 07:15
English to Dutch
+ ...
| Not a punishment | Jan 15, 2012 |
Ah, that. That's not work. That's a hobby. And though a normal working day is indeed 8 hours, often I'm finished much sooner these days... thanks to MemoQ, amongst other things.
Indeed, my rates indeed are not extraordinary... and there are probably countless other ways to raise your profit. My main point is that there is no need or whatsoever to become a slave of agencies and charge 0.07 euro per word or less.
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 07:15
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER
Loek van Kooten wrote:
Indeed, my rates indeed are not extraordinary... and there are probably countless other ways to raise your profit. My main point is that there is no need or whatsoever to become a slave of agencies and charge 0.07 euro per word or less.
I find it very ironic that you put this comment right after other translators note your working hours (and periods) might be considered quite long and that you admit yourself your rates are not at the top...
"... there is no need or whatsoever to become a slave of agencies and charge 0.10 euro per word or less." How does that sound?
By the way, I'm not picking on you personally - I charge lower rates than you do for some of my clients. Yet for many agencies in my country those are ridiculously high...
What I mean is that the topic of rates is so relative, that any discussion quickly becomes pointless. There is always someone charging more and there is always someone charging less. There is no "standard", "generally accepted", "decent", etc. rate either...
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