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Glossary entry

Dutch term or phrase:

tegensprekelijk

English translation:

with both/all parties present

Added to glossary by Nadia Borissova
May 21, 2012 09:48
12 yrs ago
14 viewers *
Dutch term

tegensprekelijk

Dutch to English Bus/Financial Business/Commerce (general) Construction contract
Alle posten werden door beide partijen nagekeken en goedgekeurd, en eventuele meer- of minderwerken voortspruitend uit een afwijking van deze opgegeven hoeveelheden, worden niet aanvaard.

De uitgevoerde hoeveelheden worden *tegensprekelijk* met ons werfbestuur opgemeten.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 with both/all parties present
4 contradictory
4 disputable/contestable
4 adjudicated or adjudicates
4 under cross check (see below for alternatives)
References
tegensprekelijk

Discussion

Michael Beijer Jan 12, 2018:
see also: https://www.proz.com/kudoz/dutch_to_english/surveying/621796...
Nadia Borissova (asker) May 23, 2012:
The client confirmed that in this case tegensprekelijk = with both/all parties present.
Nadia Borissova (asker) May 21, 2012:
@ Textpertise Thank you very much for your help!
I believe that in this case both parties should be present (as indicated in the post of Bryan and the sentence from the contract). I will check with my Belgian client later today.
Nadia Borissova (asker) May 21, 2012:
@ Bryan Thank you so much for clarifying!
Nadia Borissova (asker) May 21, 2012:
@ writeaway Thank you so much for providing the correct translation!
Bryan Crumpler May 21, 2012:
Why is there talk of the stock market? We are referring to a construction contract.

Also, try to fit it in context.

The concept we're dealing with is "tegensprekelijk opmeten", not just "tegensprekelijk" or "tegenspraak". Surely that should shake some neurons w.r.t. some of these answers.

Clearer examples:
"Tegensprekelijk opmeten en registreren van de uitgevoerde hoeveelheden (met inbegrip van het maken van schetsen indien nodig)"
http://www.cervo.be/page/1179

http://cervo.be/VACATURES/ROE75.html

"het tegensprekelijk opmeten en bepalen van de verkleinde hoeveelheid in m3."
http://www.bda-online.be/ShowTender.aspx?tendernumber=306599...


"Een plaatsbeschrijving is niet onderworpen aan vormvoorwaarden. Alleen moet ze "omstandig" (zie 1) en "tegensprekelijk" (2) zijn:
1. Omstandig = voldoende gedetailleerd....
2. Tegensprekelijk = opgesteld in aanwezigheid van beide partijen (huurder en verhuurder) of hun vertegenwoordiger of een door hen (of de rechtbank) aangeduide deskundige. ...."
http://plusmagazine.knack.be/nl/rechtengeld/vastgoed/artikel...
Michael Beijer May 21, 2012:
Context? What type of document are we dealing with here?
Michael Beijer May 21, 2012:
tegensprekelijke meetstaat I think this is a so-called 'tegensprekelijke meetstaat'. See e.g.: 'Na de werken wordt een tegensprekelijke meetstaat opgesteld om de uitgevoerde oppervlakte te bepalen, die zal dienen als basis voor de facturatie.' (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web... )
Kirsten Bodart May 21, 2012:
See also http://www.proz.com/kudoz/dutch_to_german/other/460129-tegen... not merely with all parties present
In stock market terms it means that on the market there are at least two different opinions defining the market.
writeaway May 21, 2012:
this isn't an inventory though but yes, it's the Bel Dutch equivalent of contradictoire. Not exactly a mystery term.
Michael Beijer May 21, 2012:
See also: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/law_general/2002... +
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/bus_financial/88...

Proposed translations

+2
1 hr
Selected

with both/all parties present

with both/all parties present


Explanation:
This is Belgian Dutch.
Here you can even use 'together with us'.
It has absolutely nothing at all to do with disputes or cross-checking.

At Asker's request, I have re-posted the answer I hid. For the record, there were 2 peer comments, one agree and one neutral.


Note from asker:
Many thanks! I agree with you.
Peer comment(s):
agree Michael Beijer
0 min
neutral Textpertise : See note added to my answer - Both parties need to check the figures but not necessarily at the same time.
11 mins
contradictoire means just that. that both parties will be present when the figures are checked. This is Belgian Dutch, not NL Dutch.
agree philgoddard
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks!"
1 hr

contradictory

opposing, conflicting, ambiguous take your pick...
Note from asker:
Bedankt!
Something went wrong...
18 mins

disputable/contestable

It means that it can be argued over, in a legal or general way.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2012-05-21 11:11:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

See this link for more context: http://www.bouwadvies.be/expertise.htm below is what it means to be 'tegensprekelijk'
Note from asker:
Bedankt!
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : ok-so how can this possibly fit in with the context???/care to offer a sentence or part of one? It isn't difficult to comprehend and I do indeed understand that this is wrong.
1 hr
See my discussion entry. It is hardly difficult to comprehend.
Something went wrong...
1 hr

adjudicated or adjudicates

In this context it would seem a third party "werfbestuur" adjudicates over the discrepencancy.

one definition is "rechterlijke uitspraak"

Hope this helps.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 uur (2012-05-21 11:25:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

*oops "discrepancy" typed a little too quickly :-)
Note from asker:
Bedankt!
Something went wrong...
19 mins

under cross check (see below for alternatives)

http://www.mijnwoordenboek.nl/vertaal/NL/EN/tegensprekelijk ...
under double verification by our ...
under cross verification by our ...
under double check by our...
or anything else that conveys the same meaning

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2012-05-21 11:42:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The word itself just means that both parties check whatever is being determined or supervised. It doesn't indicate anything about whether or not they do it at the same time. If your context supports the determination being made by both parties being present, that may well be the case, but there is nothing about the term itself to indicate that they don't come along at different times to check it independently, as long as whatever one party says is the quantity, is checked or verified by the other party.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2012-05-21 11:44:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Also, it does not imply that there is any dispute. It is just a stipulation that both parties agree the figures.
Note from asker:
Yes, you are right. I thought so, too. Many thanks!
I am sorry, but it seems that in this case it means: with both/all parties present.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

tegensprekelijk

You might want to check with the client what is meant here, as I think both Textpertise and writeaway could be correct.

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definitions/DOUBLE...

http://www.bouwadvies.be/expertise.htm
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral writeaway : no need to check yet again as it's basic Belgian terminology. casting doubt unnecessarily isn't terribly helpful. this was posted after it was made clear and it casts doubt on the correct answer in this context. what is enlightening?
2 days 11 hrs
Your comment is after the fact. Asker has already asked the client and confirms that your answer is correct. My reference is not casting doubt "unnecessarily". At best, it is enlightening all of the participants in the discussion!
Something went wrong...
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