Mar 17, 2016 15:54
8 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Spanish term
en la caverna
Spanish to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
possibly philosophical
nadie sabe lo que pasa en el cadáver
hasta que se incendia de endorfinas
pero hay cadáveres importantes y cadáveres importados
europa catatónica mendiga la sorpresa
y mientras se hace la muerta en el atoro
asco de venirnos solos e irnos solos
todos estamos de pie {{{{ en la caverna}}}}
la tristeza de este mundo no es que duela el dinero
_________
I'm NOT looking for help with the actual translation, but for confirmation or otherwise that I've properly understood the meaning or implications here of "la caverna". So far, I've assumed that this refers to the allegory of Plato's cave, but have nothing to corroborate this. Is this a cultural reference that the Spanish would be more acquainted with than perhaps the British reader? I've also found elsewhere a "caverna de nacionalidades", but have yet to discover what this entails…
The poem is connected with the EU and Holland's forthcoming chairmanship, and I'm informed that many the poems refer to the refugee crisis. This doesn't appear to apply especially to this particular poem, which begins on the Gordo lottery and ends on abject poverty. So what I'm asking is whether "la caverna" has any special cultural references for Spanish (mainland) people and if so, what they involve.
Many thanks if anyone is able to provide any (informed!) help. No guesses please, unless they are inspired ones!
hasta que se incendia de endorfinas
pero hay cadáveres importantes y cadáveres importados
europa catatónica mendiga la sorpresa
y mientras se hace la muerta en el atoro
asco de venirnos solos e irnos solos
todos estamos de pie {{{{ en la caverna}}}}
la tristeza de este mundo no es que duela el dinero
_________
I'm NOT looking for help with the actual translation, but for confirmation or otherwise that I've properly understood the meaning or implications here of "la caverna". So far, I've assumed that this refers to the allegory of Plato's cave, but have nothing to corroborate this. Is this a cultural reference that the Spanish would be more acquainted with than perhaps the British reader? I've also found elsewhere a "caverna de nacionalidades", but have yet to discover what this entails…
The poem is connected with the EU and Holland's forthcoming chairmanship, and I'm informed that many the poems refer to the refugee crisis. This doesn't appear to apply especially to this particular poem, which begins on the Gordo lottery and ends on abject poverty. So what I'm asking is whether "la caverna" has any special cultural references for Spanish (mainland) people and if so, what they involve.
Many thanks if anyone is able to provide any (informed!) help. No guesses please, unless they are inspired ones!
Discussion
Both Andy's and Cecilia's suggestions point in similar directions, although I'm rather hoping that Cecilia's "reactionary" one from the RAE is the way to go, as it is easier to fit into the poem (something connected with "status quo" or "standing still" follows on well from the previous line)
I do hope at least one of you will post your suggestions as answers, as I am very aware that points are supposedly awarded for "the most helpful answer", and in my experience, this isn't necessarily the closest translation to my final choice, but the suggestion that has most helped put me on the path to working this out for myself.
In any case, I hope to let you know the outcome, and plan to post the chosen term in the Glossary
Yep. That's why I mentioned it.
And Carol, I would not worry too much about fitting anything into the poem since it is free verse and has no meter or rhyme, except for the two verses in the middle, at least in the fragment you published.
"Caverna:
3. f. coloq. Esp. Conjunto de las personas de mentalidad o actitudes retrógradas de una sociedad. La caverna."
And here's a link where the whole of Spain is called "la caverna" by a Barça fan.
http://www.blaugranas.com/para_la_caverna_estamos_muertos-it...
So may be "caverna" means in this case a backward mentality.
It's a common expression,
"Jan 21, 2016 - Lo que no parece aceptable es que se dirijan a Pablo Iglesias como "el Coletas", a ver si la caverna española es capaz de dirigirse a Rajoy ..."
but whether it has anything to do with your poem is beyond me.