Dec 2, 2023 18:20
5 mos ago
33 viewers *
French term
plaide d'abondant
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Third Pary Defence
En réplique aux allégations faites au paragraphe xx de la défense et la mise en cause, xxxx plaide d'abondant que :
In reply to the allegations made in paragraph xx of the Statement of Defence and the Third Party Claim, xxxx ... ?
I am unfamiliar with the use of "plaide d'abondant"
Thank you for any and all help.
In reply to the allegations made in paragraph xx of the Statement of Defence and the Third Party Claim, xxxx ... ?
I am unfamiliar with the use of "plaide d'abondant"
Thank you for any and all help.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +3 | (pleads) in addition |
Bourth
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| 3 -1 | Pleading in the alternative |
Yassine El Bouknify
|
Proposed translations
+3
14 mins
Selected
(pleads) in addition
Plaider d'abondant is not a set expression, it's just the combination of plaider and d'abondant, an archaic expression:
"Vx. D'abondant, loc. adv. : « par surcroît » (mentionné par qq. dict., cf. hist.). [...] xiiies. d'abondant terme rhét. « de plus, en outre » (Joinville, St Louis, éd. Wailly, 465 ds Gdf. Compl. : Et il si firent, et d'abondant li envoierent tirez les os le conte Gautier de Brienne, pour mettre en terre benoite). Empr. au lat. abundans [ ... ] D'abondant, loc. adv. attestée dep. le xiiies. (cf. étymol. II 2) et très usitée jusqu'au xviies. (cf. 17 ex. ds Hug.),surtout dans la lang. jur.; dès lors son usage est controversé (cf. Brunot t. 3, pp. 13 et 356) et, bien qu'elle soit vieillie dep. la fin du xviies. (cf. Fur. 1690, Ac. 1694, etc.), elle paraît toujours dans la lexicogr. jusqu'à nos jours et peut être empl. (cf. Littré)."
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/abondant
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Note added at 4 hrs (2023-12-02 22:42:10 GMT)
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I have taken note of the claim below that 'in addition' "changes the meaning to entry of a separate submission" and have looked at examples of usage of the term on the Ouèbbhe, finding ONE where plaide d'abondant is preceded by a first plaide, and several where it is not. I wonder how the term fits into the broader context of your document ...
"Vx. D'abondant, loc. adv. : « par surcroît » (mentionné par qq. dict., cf. hist.). [...] xiiies. d'abondant terme rhét. « de plus, en outre » (Joinville, St Louis, éd. Wailly, 465 ds Gdf. Compl. : Et il si firent, et d'abondant li envoierent tirez les os le conte Gautier de Brienne, pour mettre en terre benoite). Empr. au lat. abundans [ ... ] D'abondant, loc. adv. attestée dep. le xiiies. (cf. étymol. II 2) et très usitée jusqu'au xviies. (cf. 17 ex. ds Hug.),surtout dans la lang. jur.; dès lors son usage est controversé (cf. Brunot t. 3, pp. 13 et 356) et, bien qu'elle soit vieillie dep. la fin du xviies. (cf. Fur. 1690, Ac. 1694, etc.), elle paraît toujours dans la lexicogr. jusqu'à nos jours et peut être empl. (cf. Littré)."
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/abondant
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Note added at 4 hrs (2023-12-02 22:42:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I have taken note of the claim below that 'in addition' "changes the meaning to entry of a separate submission" and have looked at examples of usage of the term on the Ouèbbhe, finding ONE where plaide d'abondant is preceded by a first plaide, and several where it is not. I wonder how the term fits into the broader context of your document ...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
philgoddard
: Or 'also pleads'.//There's no way of knowing, but it doesn't affect the translation.
1 hr
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Thanks. Is that an inclusive or separative 'also'? ;-)
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| neutral |
Adrian MM.
: > literally right, though out of line with Anglo-CanE legal drafting practic/se in both of which additional pleading means a separate amendment. Clearly, it isn't. https://www.formativelaw.ca/2020/07/amendment-of-pleadings-i...
2 hrs
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I don't see how you can say, with the few words we've been given, that "it clearly isn't". I don't know about Anglo-CanE legal drafting, but if you are to be believed it does not comply with Indian practice in the matter.
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| agree |
AllegroTrans
: Literal until proven otherwise; I would personally say "further pleads"
19 hrs
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I like it. I'd like to think that had I gone beyond establishing the meaning, I might have come up with it myself ;-)
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| agree |
Annette Fehr
: I agree with the meaning, but I also agree with Allegro that "further pleads" is more elegant and common in legal English.
3 days 16 hrs
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Thanks
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
-1
18 mins
Yassine El Bouknify
Morocco
Morocco
Morocco
Literature,Marketing & Legal Translation
Native in: Arabic (Variants: Standard-Arabian (MSA), Hassaniya, Moroccan, UAE, Kuwaiti, Najdi) 
, Berber (Other) (Variants: Central Atlas Tamazight, Tamazight , Standard Moroccan Tamazight, Tarifit , Tashelhit , Riffian) 
Works in: English to Arabic, French to Arabic, Arabic to English, and 21 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Pleading in the alternative
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-italian/law-general/20...
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Note added at 20 minutos (2023-12-02 18:40:48 GMT)
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Alternative pleading
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-spanish/law-general/19...
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Note added at 34 minutos (2023-12-02 18:54:45 GMT)
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It's more or less the same question
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/356...
Note from asker:
| This has been both very interesting and helpful. Thank you! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Adrian MM.
: 'pleads / does plead in the alt.' -> I like your last reference, except the other answer of further pleads is non-standard in Anglo-Am-CanE pleading practic/se // Don't worry about non-lawyer Mr. Ubiquitous whose agrees often spell the kiss of death.
2 hrs
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| disagree |
philgoddard
: Only your last reference is relevant, and it supports Bourth's answer, not yours.
2 hrs
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| disagree |
Annette Fehr
: This term doesn't exist in legal English.
3 days 16 hrs
|
Discussion
http://www.noslangues-ourlanguages.gc.ca/juridictionnaire/ab...