Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
ملک یا ملکٔ
Urdu translation:
ملک
- The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2010-11-18 16:54:10 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)
Nov 14, 2010 18:50
13 yrs ago
English term
ملک یا ملکٔ
English to Urdu
Other
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Some times people Put a 'hamza' ٔ on ک. Is it permissble?
Proposed translations
(Urdu)
4 +6 | ملک | Qudsia Lone |
5 +1 | ملک | Sajid Nadeem |
Proposed translations
+6
1 hr
Selected
ملک
To my knowledge, in Urdu, ک is written without the *humza/squiggly sign.
In Arabic, in Holy Quran when ک is written in full, whether in Indo-Pak script or Uthmani script, it has the squiggly sign on it. (This sign is not written when ک is followed by a joining letter, as in the second ک in the same phrase below.)
ذٰلِكَ الْڪِتٰبُ لَا رَيْبَ
To check the usage in today's Arabic, I put two simple Arabic words ذالک and تلک in a search engine and most entries showed the ک with the squiggly sign, but there was one entry I saw that didn't have it.
So, I think if someone is writing Urdu with the squiggle on ک, they're using their Arabic keyboard or are using Arabic script on purpose. I think if one has a choice, one shouldn't use the squiggle. If someone else is using it, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what letter it is, they're just being unnecessarily (if not inappropriately) stylish with it.
Perhaps there is some old Urdu script that does use the squiggle on the ک, I don't remember seeing one though.
*P.S. I'm not sure if that symbol on ک can be called a 'humza' as it looks different then a regular humza...a "squiggle" perhaps? If the symbol is indeed a different sign then 'humza' and people are adding a 'humza' on their ک, then that could be considered wrong.
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Note added at 1 hr (2010-11-14 20:46:09 GMT)
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Correction: In second last line, please read the first "then" as "than"...so it would read:
"If the symbol is indeed a different sign than 'humza' and ...."
In Arabic, in Holy Quran when ک is written in full, whether in Indo-Pak script or Uthmani script, it has the squiggly sign on it. (This sign is not written when ک is followed by a joining letter, as in the second ک in the same phrase below.)
ذٰلِكَ الْڪِتٰبُ لَا رَيْبَ
To check the usage in today's Arabic, I put two simple Arabic words ذالک and تلک in a search engine and most entries showed the ک with the squiggly sign, but there was one entry I saw that didn't have it.
So, I think if someone is writing Urdu with the squiggle on ک, they're using their Arabic keyboard or are using Arabic script on purpose. I think if one has a choice, one shouldn't use the squiggle. If someone else is using it, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what letter it is, they're just being unnecessarily (if not inappropriately) stylish with it.
Perhaps there is some old Urdu script that does use the squiggle on the ک, I don't remember seeing one though.
*P.S. I'm not sure if that symbol on ک can be called a 'humza' as it looks different then a regular humza...a "squiggle" perhaps? If the symbol is indeed a different sign then 'humza' and people are adding a 'humza' on their ک, then that could be considered wrong.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-11-14 20:46:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Correction: In second last line, please read the first "then" as "than"...so it would read:
"If the symbol is indeed a different sign than 'humza' and ...."
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Irshad Muhammad
: Excellent! Best research and explanation.
6 hrs
|
agree |
Quamrul Islam
: The orthographic sign over Kaf is not a 'hamza': http://omega.enstb.org/yannis/pdf/arabic-simpli98.pdf
7 hrs
|
agree |
abufaraz
13 hrs
|
agree |
Haris Ali Dogar
14 hrs
|
agree |
Shahab Arif
14 hrs
|
agree |
Kausar Saiyed (X)
: Yes, that is just another way of writing 'Kaaf'. I have an old version of 'Deevaan-e-Meer' it has that kind of kaaf written.
1 day 22 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Honestly, I was quite satisfied and happy with the answer that I got from Mr. Sajjad Nadeem. But later when I got the answer from Ms. Lone, I thought it to be comprehensive and complete.
I thank all the participants especially Ms. Lone and Mr. Nadeem
"
+1
7 mins
ملک
میرے خیال میں یہ انداز کتابت کا اختلاف ہے۔ اس کے لفظ کے معنی میں کوئی تبدیلی واقع نہیں ہوتی مگر ء والا ک استعمال کرنا عام روزمرہ کے معمول کی کتابت میں استعمال نہیں ہوتا۔ اب اس کے بنیادی اسلوب سے تو میں واقف نہیں ہوں مگر اس کی اجازت کسی حد تک دی جا سکتی ہے اگر ساری کی ساری تحریر اسی انداز میں ہو۔ بہرحال عام کتابت میں اس کا استعمال میرے مطابق موزوں نہیں ہے۔
Discussion
http://omega.enstb.org/yannis/pdf/arabic-simpli98.pdf
According to above, the symbol is not a humza, it's an orthographic sign. (I still prefer 'squiggle'). So, I'd say if a person uses an Urdu font that does not automatically give the squiggle like Ramesh Bhatt sahib's font does, and one adds a humza manually to get a similar look, that would be incorrect because that sign is not suppose to be a humza.