brigidm (asker) Nov 3, 2008:

I've taken your comment on elves on board, gramail And don't worry - whatever I end up with, it will not be Mrs. Claus!! Another solution (read: compromise!) could be to use "helpers" rather than "elves", but if you don't find "Christmas elves" offensive, then could I not use "Mother Elf" here? This is a marketing text directed at foreign-speaking tourists, and I feel an obligation to prepare them for these figures.!

Graham Timmins Nov 3, 2008:

nisser Interesting discussion but i think you were closest at the start, Brigid! However anything with Claus in is misrepresentation and an insult to Norwegian folklore, imo, and MRS Claus is horrifying, pure Disney! What is wrong with "Christmas elves" pure and simple - the mor and far do not add to the meaning or the concept, which is made clear in the bit about wish lists?

brigidm (asker) Nov 3, 2008:

I know, Frode. For future ref. here's an extract from Norway's official website (http://www.emb-norway.ca/facts/Traditions/Christmas/juleniss... ): "Julenissen makes an appearance, of course, and let’s be clear about one thing – Julenissen is not the same character as the American Santa Claus. He is uniquely Norwegian, born centuries ago from the pre-Christian folk belief in the ghostly being believed to be the original clearer of the farmland.
These leprechaun-like creatures protected the farm and came out during Yuletide festivities to eat and drink. Gradually this nisse character blended with the Christian St. Nicholas figure from the European continent and developed into Julenissen (literally “Christmas elf”) we know today who delivers toys to the children on Christmas Eve.

Julenissen also has many small relatives, called simply nisser, who live in places like barns and boathouses, but they tend to be rather shy around humans and they only emerge from their hiding places to play harmless tricks on people or eat the porridge left out for them as a special treat. "
"Gnomes" is definitely out - Brits automatically associate these with the garden variety. The plot thickens....

Frode Aleksandersen Nov 3, 2008:

nisse? Part of the problem is that you're using "elves" to describe "nisse", which people immediately will associate with Americanized Christmas mythology, and has of course nothing to do with things like "husnisse" and "fjøsnisse". One way of getting around that is to use a different word - like say "sprite". "Gnome" is another possibility, as it gets people thinking of garden gnomes and the like. That is, if you want to make that kind of distinction.

brigidm (asker) Nov 3, 2008:

Agree with both of you. That's why I was also keen use the terms "Christmas elves" rather than just elves. And I'm still not decided about nissemor and nissefar (is nissefar perceived to be an alternative name for julenissen, for example?). I won't be suprised if I get more input on this one over the next 24 hours... the Christmas season is already upon us;-)

EC Translate Nov 3, 2008:

Julenissen vs. nissen Agree with William on this one. The Nisse and Julenisse are two different figures. Julenissen (Santa) brings gifts, whereas the Nisse (from Nils and St. Nicholaus) in Norwegian folklore takes care of your farm animals (fjøsnisse) or they live in your haus (husnisse - similar to the servant character in Harry Potter). The Nisse is probably closer to an elf than Santa, in terms of relationship.

However, since there is reference to gifts here you could probably go with the Santa reference and then it is a matter of audience. If the audience is conservative/religious use Mother Christmas or if liberal/into pop culture, use Mrs. Claus.

William [Bill] Gray Nov 3, 2008:

Julenisse/Santa I have been fascinated, puzzled, challenged and frustrated by this linguistic challange since coming to Norway 13 years ago. The basic problem is that we are dealing with two different myths/legends/stories/cultures. The nisse comes from a pre-Christian nordic cultural tradition while Saint Nicholas comes from the much more recent Christian tradition. Therefore there can be no exact translation, without a reasonable explanation included, for which there is usually no room in our texts. While I always declare (in my English classes) that Santa is NOT the julenisse, I do use the terms interchangeably when talking casually with English speaking visitors!

brigidm (asker) Nov 3, 2008:

I think I might go for "Mother Christmas". Do you want to enter it as a separate answer, Bill? for the sake of future reference?

brigidm (asker) Nov 3, 2008:

How about: "Meet Santa Claus’ chief elves, Nissemor and Nissefar, ". Would that work?