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What is post-editing exactly?
Thread poster: Alan Wang
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
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Local time: 18:20
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A little spoon-feeding Apr 1, 2013

Alan Wang wrote:


With the benefit of his technical prowess, I’d translate the text in question as follows:
The mixture is stirred for 5-15 min. at 200 ~ 300 rev / min. to facilitate extraction . Then the emulsion is water-bath heated to obtain demulsification and separation of oil layer from the aqueous layer containing total alkaloids.

For me, this looks better than his version. Any thoughts?



Since you asked, the answer to your question is negative, knowing what I now know about the details of this operation. True, what you have seems fluent enough in language, but completely misses in clarity, accuracy, and preciseness in the description of the actual process. In scientific documentation, fluency is necessary to achieve clarity, but not sufficient. What good is grammatically correct English if it misses the point, or doesn't convey the message?


 
Alan Wang
Alan Wang  Identity Verified
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TOPIC STARTER
thanks Apr 1, 2013

Well said!
wherestip wrote:

Alan Wang wrote:


With the benefit of his technical prowess, I’d translate the text in question as follows:
The mixture is stirred for 5-15 min. at 200 ~ 300 rev / min. to facilitate extraction . Then the emulsion is water-bath heated to obtain demulsification and separation of oil layer from the aqueous layer containing total alkaloids.

For me, this looks better than his version. Any thoughts?



Since you asked, the answer to your question is negative, knowing what I now know about the details of this operation. True, what you have seems fluent enough in language, but completely misses in clarity, accuracy, and preciseness in the description of the actual process. In scientific documentation, fluency is necessary to achieve clarity, but not sufficient. What good is grammatically correct English if it misses the point, or doesn't convey the message?


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:20
Chinese to English
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虚心听取其它人的意见 Apr 1, 2013

Alan Wang wrote:

Well said!
wherestip wrote:

Alan Wang wrote:


With the benefit of his technical prowess, I’d translate the text in question as follows:
The mixture is stirred for 5-15 min. at 200 ~ 300 rev / min. to facilitate extraction . Then the emulsion is water-bath heated to obtain demulsification and separation of oil layer from the aqueous layer containing total alkaloids.

For me, this looks better than his version. Any thoughts?



Since you asked, the answer to your question is negative, knowing what I now know about the details of this operation. True, what you have seems fluent enough in language, but completely misses in clarity, accuracy, and preciseness in the description of the actual process. In scientific documentation, fluency is necessary to achieve clarity, but not sufficient. What good is grammatically correct English if it misses the point, or doesn't convey the message?


I'm impressed by the new and improved Alan.


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:20
English to Chinese
+ ...
看来你尚未尽兴 Apr 1, 2013

Alan Wang wrote:

wherestip wrote:
不愿信口开河


Alright, you are right about he’s right this time, I give you that. But that does not mean you never give the impression that you two have been babysitting each other for like eternity and perhaps a little too much..
And, come to think of it, ysun isn’t all right about all the issues he raised, is he? He also claims that I made mistakes on not translating the plant name. This I don’t agree about. [汉语里念叨一遍博落回,英语里就一定也要念叨一次吗?汉语里可能有它的用词必要,但英语里不再重复,没人会以为突然改谈论什么别的植物了。]

With the benefit of his technical prowess, I’d translate the text in question as follows:
The mixture is stirred for 5-15 min. at 200 ~ 300 rev / min. to facilitate extraction . Then the emulsion is water-bath heated to obtain demulsification and separation of oil layer from the aqueous layer containing total alkaloids.

For me, this looks better than his version. Any thoughts?


[Edited at 2013-04-01 09:36 GMT]


我在论坛上经常赞同 Steve 的意见,那是因为我觉得他讲得确实有理。他的发言是调查研究、深思熟虑的结果。我相信,其他很多同仁也会同意这一点。至于什么 “babysitting each other”,那只是你以己之心度他人。

如果你认为你的译文比我的好,首先就应该指出我译文中的问题。我将洗耳恭听。我并不认为我的译文是唯一正确的译文。同一句子可以有不同的译法。但是,你的新版本仍然存在一些问题:

首先,原文中“博落回中总生物碱”是一个很严格的定义。这个“博落回”不能随意省略。至于你在另一句中用 “the plant material 来代替“博落回”,这种说法也很不严格。首先,你在前面没有给出 plant material 的定义。别人就不清楚 the plant material 到底是指什么。试问,你前面所说的 edible oil 是不是 plant material?甚至可以说,很多饭馆炒死猪肉用的“地沟油”都是 plant material。

其次,“to obtain demulsification and separation” 在逻辑上讲不通。"To obtain" means to gain possession of something. 如果改为 “to achieve demulsification and separation” 倒还可说得过去。

还有,原文是“低速搅拌”。这个“低速”也不能随意省略。200 ~ 300 rpm 并非自然地就意味着“低速”。


[Edited at 2013-04-02 05:41 GMT]


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:20
English to Chinese
+ ...
Machine Aided Translation Apr 24, 2013

美国有家翻译社在他们的网页上公开宣称,他们提供 Machine Aided Translation。他们就是用机器翻译后再找人稍加编辑,其过程就与这 post-editing 差不多。他们居然还为所谓的 Machine Aided Translation 注册了两种商标。该商标若翻成中文就是“快译”和“速译”。

 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:20
English to Chinese
+ ...
莫把专利当小说译 Apr 25, 2013

Alan Wang wrote:

He also claims that I made mistakes on not translating the plant name. This I don’t agree about. [汉语里念叨一遍博落回,英语里就一定也要念叨一次吗?汉语里可能有它的用词必要,但英语里不再重复,没人会以为突然改谈论什么别的植物了。]


你是想说“这个,我不同意”吗?须知,莫把专利当小说译,莫把“博落回”当成 Hamlet!


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:20
English to Chinese
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机器翻译果然不灵 Apr 25, 2013

机器翻译果然不灵。这是一篇专利摘要的开场白。短短一句话中,至少就有五个错!不该用 the 时却用 the,该用 a/an 时却不用。当然,机器连最基本的英语语法都没学过,也难怪!
Alan Wang wrote:

Here is a piece by post editing I did by way of exercising.
...

其乳状液的制备是以食用油作为膜溶剂,以Span 80 或Span 80 与助表面活性剂的混合物作为表面活性剂,磷酸脂作载体,......

The emulsion liquid to be prepared involves the use of edible oil as the membrane solvent, Span 80 or a mixture of Span 80 and a cosurfactant as the surface active agent, and a phosphate ester as the carrier.


 
Alan Wang
Alan Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 07:20
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Is grounding good Apr 25, 2013

I hear that Americans don’t beat up their kids, they ground kids. (I am not sure whether this is one of the more important reasons that set them apart. ) But, some older Americans who came to this country at an advanced age have not had that necessary benefit and something still hangs over from their early days and they never seem to grow up even at their very senility.


[Edited at 2013-04-26 00:56 GMT]


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:20
English to Chinese
+ ...
Post-editing Jul 19, 2014

The abstract of this patent is exactly what we discussed here in the past:
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/245477-what_is_post_editing_exactly-page3.html#2113726

Original abstract in Chinese:
http://www.google.com/patents/CN101091748A?cl=zh
本发明公开了一种液膜分离提取博落回中生物碱的方法。其乳状液的制备是以食用油作膜溶剂,以Span 80或Span 80与助表面活性剂的混合物作为表面活性剂,磷酸脂作载体,再将pH=4的博落回盐酸提取液或硫酸提取液与乳状液按照乳水体积比为(50∶5~50∶20)加入提取器中,在200转/分~300转/分的低速搅拌提取5-15min;经水浴加热破乳后分出油层,所得水相即为博落回中总生物碱的溶液。本方法使用食用油作为膜溶剂,解决了乳状液膜法目前所使用的有机溶剂有毒,不适用于中草药提取后人、兽使用的难题。整个提取过程快速、高效、操作简单。可应用于博落回药品、生物农药、兽药等产品的生产和开发及博落回中生物碱的分析测定。

I am afraid that the translation of the abstract as shown below is a result of so-called post-editing:
http://www.google.com/patents/CN101091748A?cl=en
The present invention discloses a method for extracting total alkaloid of macleaya cordata by using liquid-membrane separation process. The preparation of its emulsion is characterized by that it includes the following steps: using edible oil as membrane solvent, using mixture of Span 80 and assistant of surfactant or Span 80 as surfactant, using organic phosphate as carrier, making macleaya cordata hydrochloric acid extrat or sulfuric acid extract whose pH is 4 and the emulsion be added into an extractor according to the emulsion-water volume ratio of 50:5-50:20, making extraction for 5-15 min under the condition of low-stirring speed of 200 rpm-300 rpm, heating by means of water bath and emulsion-breaking, then separating out oil layer so as to obtain water phase, said water phase is solution of total alkaloid of macleaya cordata.



[Edited at 2014-07-20 05:29 GMT]


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:20
English to Chinese
+ ...
However Jul 19, 2014

The translation for the following three sentences from the Chinese abstract was missing:
本方法使用食用油作为膜溶剂,解决了乳状液膜法目前所使用的有机溶剂有毒,不适用于中草药提取后人、兽使用的难题。整个提取过程快速、高效、操作简单。可应用于博落回药品、生物农药、兽药等产品的生产和开发及博落回中生物碱的分析测定。

That is a big mistake, not to mention others at this moment, that even Goggle Translate wouldn't make.

[Edited at 2014-07-20 05:36 GMT]


 
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