Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
et qui auraient le même objet.
English translation:
and which pertain/pertaining to the same subject
Added to glossary by
Yvonne Gallagher
Jun 15, 2014 11:01
9 yrs ago
3 viewers *
French term
et qui auraient le même objet.
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Contract between producer
Obviously I understand the gist of this regarding the same issues or intention, but I cannot see where this fits into the phrasing (and therefore its accurate meaning) or if there may be a more standard term I could use. The context reads:
"Le présent contrat annule et remplace tous accords écrits et/ou verbaux intervenus entre les filiales de [company A] d’une part et chacun des Fournisseurs ([Company B], [Company C]) d’autre part avant la signature des présentes et qui auraient le même objet."
So far I have translated:
"This contact cancels and replaces all written and/or verbal agreements made between the subsidiaries of both [company A] and the two Suppliers ([Company B] and [Company C]) prior to signng this contract...?"
"Le présent contrat annule et remplace tous accords écrits et/ou verbaux intervenus entre les filiales de [company A] d’une part et chacun des Fournisseurs ([Company B], [Company C]) d’autre part avant la signature des présentes et qui auraient le même objet."
So far I have translated:
"This contact cancels and replaces all written and/or verbal agreements made between the subsidiaries of both [company A] and the two Suppliers ([Company B] and [Company C]) prior to signng this contract...?"
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +5 | and pertaining to the same subject | Yvonne Gallagher |
5 +1 | And which share the same object; - have the same object. | Nikki Scott-Despaigne |
5 | with the same subject matter | John Farebrother |
3 +1 | and having the same purpose | DLyons |
4 | with respect to its subject matter | Evgeny Artemov (X) |
3 +1 | and having the same purport | Adrian MM. (X) |
Change log
Jun 15, 2014 11:07: Yvonne Gallagher changed "Language pair" from "English" to "French to English"
Jun 29, 2014 09:32: Yvonne Gallagher Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+5
5 mins
Selected
and pertaining to the same subject
the contract or clause have the same subject
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Note added at 6 mins (2014-06-15 11:08:15 GMT)
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or reason
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Note added at 17 mins (2014-06-15 11:19:01 GMT)
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Repositioning the phrase
"This contact cancels and replaces all written and/or verbal agreements, which pertain/pertaining to the same subject, which have been made between the subsidiaries of [company A] and the two Suppliers ([Company B] and [Company C]) prior to signing this contract...?
I would omit "both" as there are 3 companies involved A, B and C
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Note added at 2 hrs (2014-06-15 13:02:39 GMT)
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slightly reworded. Other wordings are possible to best suit context
This contract cancels and replaces (OR supercedes) all written and/or oral agreements, which pertain/pertaining to the same subject, which have been drawn up/established/made between the Parties, viz. the subsidiaries of [company A] and the two Suppliers ([Company B] and [Company C]) prior to the signing of this contract
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Note added at 6 mins (2014-06-15 11:08:15 GMT)
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or reason
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Note added at 17 mins (2014-06-15 11:19:01 GMT)
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Repositioning the phrase
"This contact cancels and replaces all written and/or verbal agreements, which pertain/pertaining to the same subject, which have been made between the subsidiaries of [company A] and the two Suppliers ([Company B] and [Company C]) prior to signing this contract...?
I would omit "both" as there are 3 companies involved A, B and C
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Note added at 2 hrs (2014-06-15 13:02:39 GMT)
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slightly reworded. Other wordings are possible to best suit context
This contract cancels and replaces (OR supercedes) all written and/or oral agreements, which pertain/pertaining to the same subject, which have been drawn up/established/made between the Parties, viz. the subsidiaries of [company A] and the two Suppliers ([Company B] and [Company C]) prior to the signing of this contract
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Tony M
: Yes, and I would be tempted to move the position of this phrase in the sentence, in order to make the meaning clearer by bringing it closer to the subject of the verb, doing away with the lengthy interruption of the subordinate clause. / Not 'reason'
5 mins
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Thanks Tony, yes, I'd reposition also. See above.//yep meant "purpose" but "subject" is the more common legal phrase anyway
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agree |
katsy
12 mins
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Thanks Katsy:-)
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agree |
writeaway
: yes, subject oeuf corse but don't agree with the full "repositioned" translation. purpose is wrong in any case.
1 hr
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Thanks (I was just using "reason/purpose" to try to explain in simple terms "subject" (of the contract) which is what I always use.)
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agree |
Daryo
2 hrs
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many thanks Daryo:-)
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neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: Yes, for "supersede". (Thank you, that was driving me mad; I knew there was a term somewhere)! "Object" though or "purpose" too, precisely the terms used, rather than "subject" with which I disagree.// Source for "subect"?
3 hrs
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yes, supercede is better. "Subject" is correct for contracts.
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agree |
B D Finch
6 hrs
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Many thanks Barbara:-)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
5 mins
and having the same purpose
*
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Andrew Bramhall
: That's it for me
5 mins
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Thanks Oliver.
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neutral |
writeaway
: subject or object of a contract. purpose of a company......
58 mins
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Thanks writeaway. Could be, IANAL.
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12 mins
with respect to its subject matter
This is the usual language of the Entire Agreement clause.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Tony M
: Wouldn't work as it stands, since the subject of the verb here is 'accords'
1 min
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Sure, it has to be moved closer.
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1 hr
with the same subject matter
any prior agreements covering the same subject matter
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
writeaway
: subject matter already given as answer. subject or subject matter -no difference.
6 mins
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+1
2 hrs
And which share the same object; - have the same object.
Present tense in English for this part.
The choice of the term "objet" is significant in contract law.
In order for any contract to be valid, there are a certain number of clauses which are indispensible, one of which must clearly indicate the object of the contract. The object must, naturally enough, be lawful.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2014-06-15 13:46:36 GMT)
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http://youcanwin.hubpages.com/hub/Essentials-of-a-valid-Cont...
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Note added at 3 hrs (2014-06-15 14:03:21 GMT)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract
In common law legal systems, a contract (or informally known as an agreement in some jurisdictions) is an agreement having a lawful object entered into voluntarily by two or more parties, each of whom intends to create one or more legal obligations between them. The elements of a contract are "offer" and "acceptance" by "competent persons" having legal capacity who exchange "consideration" to create "mutuality of obligation."[1]
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Note added at 3 hrs (2014-06-15 14:44:17 GMT)
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Extract from my first reference :
"Lawful Object: The objective of the agreement must be lawful. Any act prohibited by law will not be valid and such agreements cannot be treated as a valid contract. A rents out his house for the business of prostitution or for making bomb, the acts performing there are unlawful. Hence such agreement cannot be treated as a valid contract. Therefore the consideration as well as the object of the agreement should be lawful."
The choice of the term "objet" is significant in contract law.
In order for any contract to be valid, there are a certain number of clauses which are indispensible, one of which must clearly indicate the object of the contract. The object must, naturally enough, be lawful.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2014-06-15 13:46:36 GMT)
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http://youcanwin.hubpages.com/hub/Essentials-of-a-valid-Cont...
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Note added at 3 hrs (2014-06-15 14:03:21 GMT)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract
In common law legal systems, a contract (or informally known as an agreement in some jurisdictions) is an agreement having a lawful object entered into voluntarily by two or more parties, each of whom intends to create one or more legal obligations between them. The elements of a contract are "offer" and "acceptance" by "competent persons" having legal capacity who exchange "consideration" to create "mutuality of obligation."[1]
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Note added at 3 hrs (2014-06-15 14:44:17 GMT)
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Extract from my first reference :
"Lawful Object: The objective of the agreement must be lawful. Any act prohibited by law will not be valid and such agreements cannot be treated as a valid contract. A rents out his house for the business of prostitution or for making bomb, the acts performing there are unlawful. Hence such agreement cannot be treated as a valid contract. Therefore the consideration as well as the object of the agreement should be lawful."
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: In my early days of contracts I translated "objet" as "object" and was told to use "subject" instead. "object" or "purpose" imo are not correct for contracts
1 hr
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Looks as though we disagree. In my legal training, academic and professional, "object" was used. // Subject matter of a contract is much more general. The "object" or "purpose" relates to the reason why the parties have entered into a contract at all.
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neutral |
B D Finch
: You are, of course, right about a contract having an object. However, I am not convinced that is the correct term here. This really turns on what is covered by "objet" in the French.
3 hrs
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agree |
Germaine
: https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=cr,ssl#q=supersedes "any previ...
12 hrs
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+1
11 hrs
and having the same purport
Dodges and fudges the subject-matter vs. object or purpose conundrum, purport straddling purview and point.
Reference:
Discussion
The "subject" or "subject matter" of a contract describes the general theme of its content. That is not the same thing as what is meant by the term "objet", which I suggest translates more accurately as "object" or "purpose". The object/purpose strike at the heart of the reason why the parties have entered into a contract in the first place.
Example :
The (lawful) object of a contract might be for A to supply packaging to company B. The subject of the contract is the packaging. The object of the contract is for 1 to supply B with that packaging.
Why have A and B entered into a contract? As A can supply B with what he wants and is prepared to provide consideration for.
For A to supply B with packaging is a lawful object.
Example 2 : C offers to supply D with heroin for which D agees to provide consideration. The subject is heroin. The object is the supply of heroin.
It will be news to noone that whilst heroin may exist legally in a location L, that of itself may not be illegal. If C and D enter into a contract for heroin to be supplied, on English soil, the object of the contract will be unlawful.
- for "both... and the two Suppliers" : you might prefer "both... and each of the Suppliers"
I already suggested doing that...