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Glossary entry

Czech term or phrase:

poddanské město

English translation:

liege town

Added to glossary by Scott Evan Andrews
Feb 23, 2009 16:10
15 yrs ago
Czech term

poddanské město

Czech to English Other History
should be a simple term, the concept is, just can't find the right term that sounds correct.
Proposed translations (English)
3 liege town
4 +1 tributary town
4 +1 nobility-owned town
3 Non-royal town
3 subject towns
2 town subject to
References
town

Discussion

Stuart Hoskins Feb 23, 2009:
Untertanenstadt This is how Czech sites translate poddanske mesto into DE. There's an entry on the DE>EN board where they opted for "subject to" or "under the dominion of" so if you've got the attribute (Rozmberks?) that might work (tributary town was suggested but rejected - the ref. was a Czech site). On the other hand, there's no guarantee that Untertanenstadt is the right CZ>DE translation. Sorry, Scott, I've come to a dead end for the time being.
Scott Evan Andrews (asker) Feb 23, 2009:
interesting thought Stuart I agree, I actually go with English websites quite often.
Stuart Hoskins Feb 23, 2009:
German Actually your best bet might be to post poddanske mesto on the Czech>German board and then work it out from the German. IMHO it's pointless translating this from Czech to English because the terms on the Internet have no historical basis. Whereas German > English should offer something of substance.
Stuart Hoskins Feb 23, 2009:
We're going through German then? My brother's a history lecturer (specialist: German witch trials) so if he gets back to me this evening I'll let you know.
Scott Evan Andrews (asker) Feb 23, 2009:
here's the sentence Hospodářský význam začala získávat i poddanská města, mezi nimi zejména Horažďovice, Horšovský Týn, Bor and další.
Stuart Hoskins Feb 23, 2009:
Can you tell us which town/city/region, Scott? The answer might vary depending on the specific history of the place.

Proposed translations

7 days
Selected

liege town

Liege means obligated to render feudal allegiance and service. Could be used in this case.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you all for your patience and spirited debate...lots of research went into this (especially Stuart), but this is the answer I've been using for years, and I saw no compelling evidence to change my ways. I appreciate that you may not agree. Thanks Zuzka!"
+1
3 mins

tributary town

.

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Note added at 6 mins (2009-02-23 16:17:05 GMT)
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Případně "manorial" nebo "vassal".
Peer comment(s):
agree Jana Bedanova : yes, this makes sense, my ProZ didn't update :-)
24 mins
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+1
23 mins

nobility-owned town

nobility-owned towns (poddanska mesta) as opposed to roal towns (owned by a king)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2009-02-23 16:34:45 GMT)
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"royal towns" i meant
Reference:

http://www.ceeol.com/aspx/issuedetails.aspx?issueid=41e194e0-557a-4f60-99d4-c1dad55780b2&articleId=1e7b3883-2a97-4a93-a3ac-2d488f219c31

http://www.tplust.estranky.cz/clanky/seminarni-prace/periodizace-vyvoje-verejne-spravy-na-uzemi-cr-charakteristika-jednotlivych-etap

Peer comment(s):
agree Klara Hurkova : This makes sense to me.
1 hr
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1 hr

Non-royal town

Example sentence:

Title in Czech: Sezimovo Ústí - archeologie středověkého poddanského města

Title in English: Sezimovo Ústí - Archaeology of a Medieval Non-Royal Town

Reference:

http://www.arup.cas.cz/cz/personaliacz/richter.html

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9 hrs

subject towns

perhaps as is here: "Aristokraticka rezidence a poddanske mesto v rannem novoveku" as " Early Modern Aristocratic Residence and Subject Town"..."subject towns in the early modern era 1500-1650" http://aplikace.isvav.cvut.cz

or type " (towns )subjugated to noble rule"
"noble subjugation of towns > www.historycooperetive.org
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13 hrs

town subject to

assuming the local "ruler" figures somewhere else in the text.
... although I would be sorely tempted to use Landstadt. However, as I haven't found any solid German histories of the towns you mention I don't know if this would be legitimate or if they would meet the requirements of a Landstadt anyway (population of at least 2,000 etc.).
Example sentence:

... was a territorial town (Landstadt) in Southern Germany, subject to the margraves ...

Reference:

http://www.qub.ac.uk/iccj/sdixon/REFORMAT/SCHWBAC/SCHWBAC.HTM

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Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

town

there might be a case just for calling it a town. It's been granted privileges that have promoted it from what it was before (a village). In the text, how relevant is it who awarded the privileges? Do you need to make it clear this is a non-royal town?
Reference:

http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C4%9Bsto

http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/medsoc/22.shtml

Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral Maria Chmelarova : St.,in your post I found under 04.21 "Resolution Casimir of Brandenburg", 2-nd prg. "...unlike free imperial cities, Swabach...",... territorial towns had to answer to the jurisdiction of" and " territorial towns, subject to their lords", what you think
22 hrs
Today my lecturer bro rejected Landstadt = terr. town :-( He found a reference to "private towns" in Poland, but noted this not part of HREmpire. Long story short, no answer. If Untertanenstadt you or me - subject (but Unter could be under monarch...)
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