Hannah Geiger (X) Jun 23, 2013:

domiciliary rights http://sla-most.cz/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=40

http://www.scanzen.cz/dobove-dokumenty/domovske-listy-2/hist...

http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domovské_právo
http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ústavní_zákon_č._236/1920_Sb._z...

Vladimír Hoffman Jun 22, 2013:

2 Asker Bud to alebo Heimatzuständigkeit
http://webslovnik.zoznam.sk/nemecko-slovensky/Heimatzuständi...

Ale po nemecky neviem, takze len odhadujem.

Vladimír Hoffman Jun 22, 2013:

2 Stuart A regards "born and living" - What is used in English, when a person is living in other place than where he/she was born?

Rad Graban (X) Jun 22, 2013:

@Stuart And I'm not arguing with you. Just want you to come up with the solution. :D

Stuart Hoskins Jun 22, 2013:

Here lies Rad, Walthamstow's finest Poprocan That's why I referred to this "particular" case, acknowledging (but overlooking) the complexities of domovská příslušnost. It has to be short and to the point in the certificate (surely tamtež příslušný is a form of shorthand in itself). I am by no means promoting "lived"; I am just stating that, in my opinion, in English we are usually "born and living in". [sorry if this is posted twice, my computer doesn't like ProZ today]

Rad Graban (X) Jun 22, 2013:

@Stuart But I'm still 'prislusny' in Poproc, Slovakia, even though visit only once a year, if so. What would this sentence be if I died in Walthamstow, London with being 'prislusny' still in Poproc? :)

Stuart Hoskins Jun 22, 2013:

Full circle I know I’m coming full circle here, but as noted I was pretty sure that “tamtež příslušný” (and here I place the emphasis on "tamtež") referred to the fact that he was “BORN and lived” there. There really are no other matches on Google (most of the references are police records). While I accept the argument that we need to convey some sort of “right to protection provided by a community and right to engage in the life thereof”, I would still contend that “born and lived” is the most natural English solution in this particular case (as he indeed [rightfully] lived there), though not perhaps the most accurate translation.

Timoshka (asker) Jun 22, 2013:

The deceased person in question was actually born in the very same house no. 7 in Zhoř. Based on all of your comments, I'm wondeirng if this is something like the German "mit Heimatberechtigung," i.e. "with right of domicile [there]."

Rad Graban (X) Jun 22, 2013:

@Maria No offence, but if I find, what I think is the best solution, in discussion, I always encourage the person who posted it in discussion to post it as the answer. I would never dream of 'stealing' it and posting it as mine. Dignity?

Rad Graban (X) Jun 22, 2013:

Domicile Just asking as e.g. I'm still domiciled/have (registered) permanent residence in my village back in Slovakia even though I've been living in the UK for 18 years, I'm on electoral roll here etc.

Stuart Hoskins Jun 22, 2013:

Domicile Crossed my mind, too, Rad. According to “reliable” old Wikipedia, and in the context of this discussion, “a person can remain domiciled in a jurisdiction even after they have left it, if they have maintained sufficient links with that jurisdiction or have not displayed an intention to leave permanently”. I wonder whether that would tally with (domovská) příslušnost?

Rad Graban (X) Jun 22, 2013:

@Stuart Could something like 'domicile' work in this case?

Vladimír Hoffman Jun 22, 2013:

2 Stuat Yoy are right that the deceased lived, worked (http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Výměnek) and died there. I would only like to point out there is no indication whether the deceased was born in the village or moved (and obtained the domicile) there later.
I wonder if it is not anologous to belonging to a parish in UK.

Rad Graban (X) Jun 22, 2013:

@Stuart "Tamtéž příslušný" basically means "with registered permanent residence also there" (in Zhoř). To be perfectly honest, I'm not keen on "registered therein", but can't think of anything else myself right now.

Stuart Hoskins Jun 22, 2013:

Sarka Point taken, I see the parallel with today’s “státní příslušnost”. The tantalisingly small extract provided by the asker appears to indicate that the deceased was born, lived, worked and died there. It may be a misplaced cultural approach that I automatically settled on "lived (resided)" and disregarded/dismissed “registered” here. Arguably, Anglo Saxons try to avoid referring to themselves as “registered” in any way.

Vladimír Hoffman Jun 22, 2013:

2 Stuart Not exactly. You could be living in a municipality, but not have "domovskú príslušnost" here, but in a municipality of your birth (which was acquired automatically). If you moved to a town or village, you could obtain domicile therein either automatically (for instance by a marriage or assignment to an official post) or by explicit (based on your application) or implicit (by non-disputing the right to stay) act of the municipal board. It means that not all people staying in a municipality were iis official (registered) inhabitants. For example, I am almost sure that it was not applied to domestic servants, even if they lived in a municipality for a long time. Therefore, "příslušný tamtéž" rather means "having an official domicile therein" regardless of how the domicile was obtained.

Sarka Rubkova Jun 22, 2013:

Stuart, "příslušný" neznamená, že tam ten člověk žil. Pokud zdědil příslušnost po rodičích, nemusel do té vesnice v životě vkročit. On tam byl prostě jen úředně registrován.

Stuart Hoskins Jun 22, 2013:

I took it for granted that “living” would generally incorporate the idea of “registered” in some way or another. “Příslušný“ itself doesn’t mean “statutorily registered”. “Tamtéž příslušný“ literally means “pertaining to the same place”, and a person may still have been of no fixed abode (“tamtéž příslušný, nestálého bydliště”). In Anglo Saxon countries I think the death certificate would have included “birthplace” and perhaps “usual residence”.

Vladimír Hoffman Jun 22, 2013:

2 Stuart Maybe you will find these links interesting:
http://www.mvcr.cz/clanek/scitani-lidu-domovska-prislusnost-...
http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domovské_právo