| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14] > | Proposal that people who post questions via the Kudoz system be obliged to provide context Thread poster: Helen Shiner
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| | Helen Shiner 
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:34
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Thanks, Jared | Jan 4, 2011 |
Where, aside from your last post on this thread, can people find these links? They don't seem any longer to be visible from the homepage - at least for me.
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Jared wrote:
The surveys have not been closed. For those who have not yet responded but wish to, they can be accessed at the following links:
Phew! 
Thank you, Jared!
| | | | | OK, Jared, so they haven't closed... | Jan 4, 2011 |
... but people can now only find them if they know where to look.
In that case, when will they close, when are you likely to tell us the outcome, and will you be acting on it if the consensus is for change?
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| A bit about how surveying members is done | Jan 5, 2011 |
Hi Phil,
One of the things that site staff do, part of the job, is surveying members and reacting to usage and feedback on the site. "Surveying" can take the form of a structured survey like these, but not necessarily-- it takes a variety of forms, and is, as I have mentioned in this same thread (I believe), ongoing. It is part of the job, a big part, and it is done well. That a survey is no longer featured on the homepage does not mean that it is closed, or that no further action i... See more Hi Phil,
One of the things that site staff do, part of the job, is surveying members and reacting to usage and feedback on the site. "Surveying" can take the form of a structured survey like these, but not necessarily-- it takes a variety of forms, and is, as I have mentioned in this same thread (I believe), ongoing. It is part of the job, a big part, and it is done well. That a survey is no longer featured on the homepage does not mean that it is closed, or that no further action is being taken, no further attention to the survey itself is being drawn (staff are also very good at gauging when a representative sample of members has been taken, too-- it's part of the job). I want that to be clear.
That said, the surveys could close at any time, but I see no harm in allowing them to run a bit longer. Overall results should not take too long to compile.
As for whether action will be taken if the consensus is for change, yes. And I believe some first steps in that direction have already been taken. Consensus so far is for change with regards to guiding askers towards including more context, but not for the kind of change that has been proposed here-- specifically, the system to vote questions out of visibility based on whether enough context has been included.
Jared ▲ Collapse
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Thanks for explaining what goes on.
Jared wrote:
As for whether action will be taken if the consensus is for change, yes.
As a matter of interest, will there be (can there be?) any division of responses, for your analysis, between categories of site user. In general terms, for instance, do you (can you?) split survey responses between paying and non-paying to see if attitudes differ, either just for interests' sake or to influence your subsequent actions? Or can/do/would you maybe apply a weighting factor, if you felt the survey warranted it?
In this specific case, would there be any way to see if attitudes vary between, say, those who use the system a lot to ask and answer, those who mainly do one or the other, or those who have never been on kudoz in their life? And if a big difference emerged, would it make any difference to subsequent actions?
After all, somewhere deep the bowels of the system, you must know who has answered, since I couldn't take the survey twice (Altho perhaps that is just a flag, and the answers are anonymised?)
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Hello Charlie,
Charlie Bavington wrote: Thanks for explaining what goes on. Jared wrote:
As for whether action will be taken if the consensus is for change, yes. As a matter of interest, will there be (can there be?) any division of responses, for your analysis, between categories of site user. In general terms, for instance, do you (can you?) split survey responses between paying and non-paying to see if attitudes differ, either just for interests' sake or to influence your subsequent actions? Or can/do/would you maybe apply a weighting factor, if you felt the survey warranted it? In this specific case, would there be any way to see if attitudes vary between, say, those who use the system a lot to ask and answer, those who mainly do one or the other, or those who have never been on kudoz in their life? And if a big difference emerged, would it make any difference to subsequent actions? After all, somewhere deep the bowels of the system, you must know who has answered, since I couldn't take the survey twice (Altho perhaps that is just a flag, and the answers are anonymised?)
This kind of analysis is routine.
Jared
| | | | | Common sense... | Jan 5, 2011 |
Helen Shiner wrote:
I would like to propose that people who post questions via the Kudoz system are obliged to provide context at the moment of posting. In other words that questions should not be accepted UNLESS context is provided. Many of us are increasingly having to start responses to questions by asking for (completely omitted) context. Additional context could then always be provided later if further information is needed.
There is NEVER no context available; it just seems that an increasing number of translators do not think it necessary to provide it or seem incapable of understanding what it is.
I note that in the current set-up the box where one MIGHT provide context is a) not obligatory and b) does not even mention the word 'context':
"Explanation / More about term (Required)
Consider entering as much information as possible for the term. Have in mind that part of the text or statement that surrounds the term you need help with will help colleagues to determine its meaning. Useful information includes type of document/situation in which the term appears, country and dialect, URLs, translations you are considering, etc. See a more detailed description here."
Context to be provided, in my opinion, should include the entire sentence in which the term queried appears (doctored, if necessary, for reasons of confidentiality). Where the term is a bullet-point, for instance, some indication should be given as to how this fits in with the surrounding text. Many Askers also fail to provide information about what kind of document the term in question appears in or the intended audience. It should be perfectly possible to provide this information in terms which do not contravene confidentiality.
I would be very interested to hear from my peers on this subject - with further suggestions or objections. If there is sufficient support , I will submit this as a suggestion to the powers that be.
What do you think?
Translators sometimes have context and sometimes they do not have any context. Therefore question should be done accordingly. Sometimes, I have exploded drawings to translate and they have only the name of the mechanical pieces without any context.
What should I give as reference?
[Edited at 2011-01-06 10:53 GMT]
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| What would you do if you were me? | Jan 7, 2011 |
My paid membership runs out in a few days' time, and I decided I wasn't going to renew it in protest against ProZ staff's unwillingness to take serious action over this issue.
Then Jared started to show a much more flexible attitude, culiminating in a consultation exercise.
However, we still have no firm commitment as to when this exercise will end or what will be done as a result.
My own feeling is that there should be a system for voting down questions w... See more My paid membership runs out in a few days' time, and I decided I wasn't going to renew it in protest against ProZ staff's unwillingness to take serious action over this issue.
Then Jared started to show a much more flexible attitude, culiminating in a consultation exercise.
However, we still have no firm commitment as to when this exercise will end or what will be done as a result.
My own feeling is that there should be a system for voting down questions with insufficient context. Jared says the consensus so far is that this should not be the case.
If I were told 'This consultation has now ended and x% of people have voted against the idea of hiding questions that contain no context', I'd be perfectly happy and I'd renew my membership. That's democracy. But at the moment, it all feels a bit like an election in a tinpot dictatorship where the government is making up the rules as it goes along.
What would you do? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 04:34
French to German
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| I would recommend... | Jan 7, 2011 |
philgoddard wrote:
What would you do?
classical British wisdom and a nice cup of tea (whichever suits you best): "Wait and see".
I guess renewing your membership after the results are made public would not be a major inconvenience.
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 04:34
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
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| There is NEVER no context available | Jan 7, 2011 |
Pablo Bouvier wrote:
Translators sometimes have context and sometimes they do not have any context. Therefore question should be done accordingly. Sometimes, I have exploded drawings to translate and they have only the name of the mechanical pieces without any context.
I can only quote Helen here:
Helen Shiner wrote:
There is NEVER no context available; it just seems that an increasing number of translators do not think it necessary to provide it or seem incapable of understanding what it is.
So, to answer your question:
Pablo Bouvier wrote:
What should I give as reference?
[Edited at 2011-01-06 10:53 GMT]
In your example: What does the drawing show? What are the other mechanical pieces called? Who is your client? What does he sell/produce? What does the part look like? How big is it? ... A lot of important context.
| | | | | More common sense? | Jan 7, 2011 |
Pablo Bouvier wrote:
Sometimes, I have exploded drawings to translate and they have only the name of the mechanical pieces without any context.
What should I give as reference?
So, you have no idea what the drawing is of, what the unit (that is exploded in the drawing) does, what that unit is called, the function(s) it performs, what larger assemblies it may (or may not) form part of, you know nothing of that whtsoever?
You don't know who manufactures it or what line of business/industry they operate in?
You have, in essence, a mystery item forming part of an un-named larger unit the purpose of which is a closed book to you (and you don't even know the names of the other parts in the unit), produced by a nameless company operating in an unknown industry, of uncertain location or purpose? OK, you have no context.
As has been oft repeated elseword, context is not = having some words before and after.
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philgoddard wrote:
What would you do?
Assuming you do not lose any discount, that there is no benefit to unbroken membership, that you are not expecting to need to respond to any member-only job posts in the next few days, I would wait and see whether the final decision meets my democratic expectations.
| | | | | Now there's a phrase that doesn't translate | Jan 7, 2011 |
Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
classical British wisdom and a nice cup of tea
No foreigner can ever fully understand the redolence of that phrase.
One way of gaining an insight into its complex meaning is this brilliant website, which sadly is not being updated any more:
http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/
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