| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Off topic: When translators aren't ethical, yikes! Thread poster: toasty
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toasty 
Italy
Local time: 18:50
Member (2013)
Italian to English
| | traduttori e blue board di proz | Jan 16, 2023 |
Buonasera, stavo riflettendo su come è cambiato il mondo delle traduzione e specialmente dei traduttori. Avendo un'agenzia di traduzioni, riflettevo che avrei dovuto assumere qualcuno solo per entrare in proz e scrivere che tale traduttore o tale revisore non hanno fatto il controllo grammaticale, non hanno riletto il testo prima della consegna e magari è incompleto... oppure quando un cliente lamenta una traduzione, rispondono che si tratta di una questione di stile; come se, lo stile non fac... See more Buonasera, stavo riflettendo su come è cambiato il mondo delle traduzione e specialmente dei traduttori. Avendo un'agenzia di traduzioni, riflettevo che avrei dovuto assumere qualcuno solo per entrare in proz e scrivere che tale traduttore o tale revisore non hanno fatto il controllo grammaticale, non hanno riletto il testo prima della consegna e magari è incompleto... oppure quando un cliente lamenta una traduzione, rispondono che si tratta di una questione di stile; come se, lo stile non facesse parte della traduzione ma fosse qualcosa di alieno... mah!
Potrei aggiungere anche errori di terminologia o l'utilizzo inappropriato di machine translation senza nemmeno un post editing light.
Ma non vedo agenzie di traduzione che si mettono a inserire commenti "cattivi" su questi traduttori; come dire se il traduttore non soddisfa l'esigenza dell'agenzia, la stessa non lo contatta più.
Vedo , invece, sempre più spesso come i traduttori utilizzino la Blue Board di proz per minacciare le agenzie di traduzione.
Un esempio banale, se decidi di non utilizzare più una traduttrice, non te lo puoi permettere. Sei letteralmente minacciato. Hai pagato con 10 giorni di ritardo un traduttore? Non c'è problema:ti mette il suo commento su proz. Un traduttore esegue un lavoro in maniera inadeguata? Chiami il traduttore gli mostri gli errori e se del caso gli decurti quanto hai dovuto spendere per la revisione del documento da parte di qualcuno che ha rifatto il suo lavoro. Il traduttore ti chiama e ti minaccia: se non paghi la traduzione scrivo su proz. Io personalmente sono stata oggetto di una traduttrice che abbiamo utilizzato per anni ed è stata sempre pagata. Abbiamo poi assunto una traduttrice al suo posto e non avendo lavoro per entrambe non abbiamo più utilizzato la free lance. Dopo due anni dalla fine del nostro rapporto di collaborazione decide di mettere 1 sulla nostra blue board. Perché ho chiesto alla traduttrice? Ha risposto con arroganza che lei poteva mettere quello che voleva anche senza alcuna motivazione. Ora mi chiedo, visto che anche le agenzie pagano per essere in proz, per quale motivo non sono tutelate come lo sono i traduttori? Mi sono confrontata con altre agenzie di traduzione e mi sembra che quanto da me scritto sia molto condiviso. Dal canto mio, prima di inserire un pessimo voto si un traduttore, magari mi vado a fare una corsa, sbollentisco la rabbia e passo avanti.... ▲ Collapse
| | | | toasty
Italy
Local time: 18:50
Member (2013)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER | Sorry, but how is that related? | Jan 16, 2023 |
Are you responding to the article I posted? Or just venting?
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 12:50
Spanish to English
+ ...
| According to the article... | Jan 17, 2023 |
According to the article, the translators just took an old book and copied and pasted text into a government form.
It would be like:
"NAME" translated as "Buffalo Hunter"
"ADDRESS" translated as "in the snow"
"CHIEF COMPLAINT" translated as "seal blubber and other"
"DESCRIBE THE DAMAGE CAUSED TO YOUR PROPERTY" translated as "when the winter flocks fly south"
The question remains whether it was translators who duped the agency or the ... See more According to the article, the translators just took an old book and copied and pasted text into a government form.
It would be like:
"NAME" translated as "Buffalo Hunter"
"ADDRESS" translated as "in the snow"
"CHIEF COMPLAINT" translated as "seal blubber and other"
"DESCRIBE THE DAMAGE CAUSED TO YOUR PROPERTY" translated as "when the winter flocks fly south"
The question remains whether it was translators who duped the agency or the agency that did this thinking that no one would actually be using/reading these forms (since there are only around 12,000 speakers of the language).
The money was returned to the government. But I think they are ATA members.
[Edited at 2023-01-17 04:27 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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From the article:
It appears the words and phrases used in the translated documents were taken from Nikolai Vakhtin’s 2011 edition of “Yupik Eskimo Texts from the 1940s,” said John DiCandeloro, the language center’s archivist.
Could this be a case of somebody just accepting raw MT output, without doing any checking?
I tried asking ChatGTP to translate something into Yup'ik, but it declined.
"I'm sorry, I am not able to translate text into Yup'ik as it is a complex language with many dialects and specific cultural references that I am not familiar with. It is best to use a professional translator who is fluent in Yup'ik."
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 18:50
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
The agency that fell victim to this fraud specializes in translation for the US government. They issued an apology, here.
globe group wrote:
Avendo un'agenzia di traduzioni, riflettevo che avrei dovuto assumere qualcuno solo per entrare in proz e scrivere che tale traduttore o tale revisore non hanno fatto il controllo grammaticale, non hanno riletto il testo prima della consegna e magari è incompleto...
Ma non vedo agenzie di traduzione che si mettono a inserire commenti "cattivi" su questi traduttori; come dire se il traduttore non soddisfa l'esigenza dell'agenzia, la stessa non lo contatta più. ...
Ora mi chiedo, visto che anche le agenzie pagano per essere in proz, per quale motivo non sono tutelate come lo sono i traduttori? Mi sono confrontata con altre agenzie di traduzione e mi sembra che quanto da me scritto sia molto condiviso.
Yes, often when translators defraud translation agencies, calls go out for the creation of a Blue Board of translators, i.e. where agencies can warn each other (and other translators) about bad translators. ProZ.com has explained in the past the reason why they don't offer such a service. It has to do with power imbalance. But I feel like I want to agree with you: I, too, have wondered by the fraudsters in this case are not named (and cannot be named). They are scammers, but I don't think ProZ.com will allow them to be listed in the scam sub-forum. I sympathize with you as a translation agency owner.
[Edited at 2023-01-17 08:44 GMT]
| | | | toasty
Italy
Local time: 18:50
Member (2013)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER | @Philip @Samuel | Jan 17, 2023 |
@Philip Yes, I got that sense too, and running MT and not checking it is definitely unethical, regardless of who did it. With niche languages, the translation agency has to simply trust the translator at a certain point, but this seems extreme. For a job worth $3,000 (or $5,000 as stated in the article), you'd think they could have at least found a revisor to spot check for accuracy.
Or then again, maybe this is a problem of the client wanting something impossible (e.g., translation... See more @Philip Yes, I got that sense too, and running MT and not checking it is definitely unethical, regardless of who did it. With niche languages, the translation agency has to simply trust the translator at a certain point, but this seems extreme. For a job worth $3,000 (or $5,000 as stated in the article), you'd think they could have at least found a revisor to spot check for accuracy.
Or then again, maybe this is a problem of the client wanting something impossible (e.g., translation of 10,000 words in 24 hours) and the agency did its best to deliver? In other words, the issue is more one of educating the client than anything else.
@Samuel, thanks for posting the link to the letter. Interesting that the fee for the job differs greatly between the article and the apology letter! Sounds like the agency got taken for a ride, but I'm going to guess there was no actual review after the translation was submitted. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Blue Board of translators | Jan 17, 2023 |
A change was made a few years ago to make it possible to rate translators, from 1 to 5, but only if they allow rating, so we do have some sort of Blue Board of translators already. I enabled it, as I expect it to work in my favour.
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| Agency's anf officials' fault too | Jan 17, 2023 |
It's no excuse for the allegedly 'scamming' translators (which are actually not explicitly mentioned in the text), but it's the LSP's business risk when they work with 'not so common' languages, and it's their primary responsibility to provide some kind of a check. I would not be surprised if the agency did it themselves, just to get a paycheck and cut the costs of such translations, which would be high for that rare language. Also, what I don't get is "FEMA immediately took responsibility for t... See more It's no excuse for the allegedly 'scamming' translators (which are actually not explicitly mentioned in the text), but it's the LSP's business risk when they work with 'not so common' languages, and it's their primary responsibility to provide some kind of a check. I would not be surprised if the agency did it themselves, just to get a paycheck and cut the costs of such translations, which would be high for that rare language. Also, what I don't get is "FEMA immediately took responsibility for the translation errors and corrected them" - if they can correct the errors (i.e. they have somebody with command of the language?), why couldn't they proofread the documents in the first place? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Storm in a teacup? | Jan 18, 2023 |
Given the amount of fuss language activists make here in Wales every time something is mistranslated into Welsh, I wouldn’t be surprised if the translation wasn’t that bad at all.
Everything is turned into such a drama these days that you don’t know what to believe. It’s like the boy who cried “Wolf!”.
| | | | toasty
Italy
Local time: 18:50
Member (2013)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER | It's FEMA... | Jan 18, 2023 |
We're talking about FEMA and a natural disaster. Maybe this time it actually is important.
And sentences like “Tomorrow he will go hunting very early, and will (bring) nothing,” in the middle of FEMA paperwork isn't just a bad translation, it's utter nonsense.
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Ice Scream wrote:
Given the amount of fuss language activists make here in Wales every time something is mistranslated into Welsh ...
And then you get this kind of thing.
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| But does it matter? | Jan 18, 2023 |
Yes, exactly. Something which everyone other than those actively looking for offence will find funny. Same thing here.
In neither case will it really matter, as (a) readers will understand English too and (b) they can query it.
I see the translation agency owner points out in her defence that she's a non-white female, as if that matters. Not everything has to be about gender and race. Which makes me sound like a Daily Express reader, but sometimes I feel the world needs to get a sense of humour again.
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 12:50
Spanish to English
+ ...
| You should read the whole article before posting | Jan 18, 2023 |
Ice Scream wrote:
Given the amount of fuss language activists make here in Wales every time something is mistranslated into Welsh, I wouldn’t be surprised if the translation wasn’t that bad at all.
Everything is turned into such a drama these days that you don’t know what to believe. It’s like the boy who cried “Wolf!”.
The source documents were government forms to request federal disaster assistance. The "translation" was random words and phrases copied from an old book that had nothing to do with the source text.
[Edited at 2023-01-18 18:43 GMT]
| | | | John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 12:50
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
| Challenging project | Jan 18, 2023 |
This would have been a very challenging project. On the one hand is the government client, who most likely is required to award the order to the lowest of at least 3 bidders. On the other hand is a project whose end product is likely unintelligible to the government client and the translation agency's in-house staff, requiring the quality assurance process to be outsourced.
In some of these remote languages with a following of only a few thousand or even a few hundred native speaker... See more This would have been a very challenging project. On the one hand is the government client, who most likely is required to award the order to the lowest of at least 3 bidders. On the other hand is a project whose end product is likely unintelligible to the government client and the translation agency's in-house staff, requiring the quality assurance process to be outsourced.
In some of these remote languages with a following of only a few thousand or even a few hundred native speakers there is in some cases only a single native individual in their community who is able to accurately translate from English into the target language. To find that individual requires a great deal of effort, which someone has to pay for.
[Edited at 2023-01-18 21:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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