| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | How to avoid careless mistakes? Thread poster: swaninga
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:35
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Things to do | May 29, 2013 |
I agree with the previous suggestions, which could be summarised as:
1. Run the spellcheck anyway but don't rely on it.
2. When you've finished checking your translation, print it out and check it again.
3. Leave it aside for a while.
4. Print it again (possibly changing the font or the font colour, temporarily) and correct any errors.
5. Then send it. If you have a good relationship with the agency, they'll check it too and will (politely) point out any more... See more I agree with the previous suggestions, which could be summarised as:
1. Run the spellcheck anyway but don't rely on it.
2. When you've finished checking your translation, print it out and check it again.
3. Leave it aside for a while.
4. Print it again (possibly changing the font or the font colour, temporarily) and correct any errors.
5. Then send it. If you have a good relationship with the agency, they'll check it too and will (politely) point out any more errors that may have escaped your attention. That's their job, isn't it? ▲ Collapse
| | | | IrimiConsulting 
Sweden
Local time: 08:35
Member (2010)
English to Swedish
+ ...
| @Nicole Schnell | May 29, 2013 |
In my expert fields -- which are all highly technical -- the text should be extremely clear and unambiguous. Therefore, the amount of information between the lines is small or nonexistent, and therefore it can be analysed by software with some success. Not perfectly, but enough to justify their use. Spell checkers are one type of tool; number checkers and consistency checkers are other tools that I use frequently.
@Nicole: In your profile, you have listed expertise in marketing, adv... See more In my expert fields -- which are all highly technical -- the text should be extremely clear and unambiguous. Therefore, the amount of information between the lines is small or nonexistent, and therefore it can be analysed by software with some success. Not perfectly, but enough to justify their use. Spell checkers are one type of tool; number checkers and consistency checkers are other tools that I use frequently.
@Nicole: In your profile, you have listed expertise in marketing, advertising, public relations, among others. Few software tools are worth their salt when it comes to such text types since there is lots of informations between the lines. Formalising and analysing this information with software just isn't possible and maybe never will, but dismissing spell checkers completely doesn't make them useless for everyone.
Nicole Schnell wrote:
Please refrain from such personal attacks.
You can't deny that you have produced many negative statements regarding software tools on ProZ.com, be it CAT tools or others. The point about it being tiresome is my personal opinion, just like you expressed your personal opinion that spell checkers make the brain lazy. Or at least I assume it's your personal opinion; if you have data to back it up please share it. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 08:35
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| My situation | May 29, 2013 |
swaninga wrote:
I would really like to "crack down" on these errors, (if possible without slowing me down). Is there anything I can do? Have you ever had this problem and what was your solution?
I have the same problem with certain types of errors. Waiting an hour or two, or even a day or two, does not always help me see the glaring errors. The best thing for me personally would be to rely on a second person to check the work.
Some things increase my rate of errors: if I'm forced to use a CAT tool that puts source and target text side by side, then I make more of those errors. Some things reduce it: for example, if I use a larger font, I make fewer mistakes, which is why I always translate in MS Word in 200% zoom. Also, whenever possible I translate in the same font (fortunately most of my texts allow me to do that), so my eyes are used to the letters. I make more mistakes in fonts that I don't commonly use.
I often talk the text while I type it, and I wonder if that helps a bit (it probably does). Reading the text out loud afterwards doesn't seem to help me much, though. On the other hand, printing the text does sometimes help.
Nicole is from a "good translators don't use spell-checkers" school of thought, and I have some other colleagues who share that view. In fact, I had a lecturer at college from a "good translators don't use dictionaries" school of thought, and he was an otherwise bright fellow! However, my opinion is that you should use all aids that you can. If you want to reduce your reliance on spell-checkers, then try using the spell-checker last, not first.
| | | | Parrot
Spain
Local time: 08:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Awright kids, that's 'nuff... | May 29, 2013 |
IrimiConsulting wrote: Nicole Schnell wrote:
Please refrain from such personal attacks. You can't deny that you have produced many negative statements regarding software tools on ProZ.com, be it CAT tools or others. The point about it being tiresome is my personal opinion, just like you expressed your personal opinion that spell checkers make the brain lazy. Or at least I assume it's your personal opinion; if you have data to back it up please share it.
We all know a classroom of 30 translation students should produce something like 30 variants of a translation; what's to stop us from deducing they used 30 different methods? (It would be worse if they copied each other).
Put me down as 50-50: I use spellcheckers and CAT tools where they're useful. Which should be just about 50% of the time.
(Definitely anything automated would be useless in what a colleague has called the "sow's-ear method" -- turning out brilliant copy from trashy originals).
[Edited at 2013-05-29 10:57 GMT]
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Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 23:35
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | @IrimiConsulting | May 29, 2013 |
IrimiConsulting wrote:
In my expert fields -- which are all highly technical --
So are mine. I work in B2B and write both, the advertising and marketing texts as well as the tech manuals for industrial machinery and IT. No flowery descriptions of hotel rooms.
but dismissing spell checkers completely doesn't make them useless for everyone.
I do NOT dismiss spell checkers. Translators however should not rely on them as their first and most definitely not as their only tool for quality control. All of the sudden the text looks beautifully clean and finished, which is deceiving. I learned this technique in large advertising agencies where you easily lose a client over a single typo in a print ad or where thousands of brochures have to be reprinted over night at your own expense. And the hapless copywriter who didn't follow the QA procedures in an ISO9001 certified agency will most likely get fired.
We were also not allowed to proofread our texts on the screen.
If you find my opinions tiresome, stop reading them.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 23:35
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Quick explanation @IrimiConsulting regarding "brain laziness" | May 29, 2013 |
The German orthography reform took place in the late 90s. I was already in the US and had to learn all this stuff "from afar". Most of my life I have been writing according to the old rules, and especially where new upper/lower case rules are concerned, it would be beyond careless to trust a spell checker. That's what I mean with brain laziness.
Greetings,
Nicole
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It was actually my history teacher who started me on this tack, when I was 15 and a lot of people here were not yet born. Even Billy Gates was only about ten years old, so spellcheckers were teachers with red pens.
And our French teacher was off sick for a several months up to our O-Level exams!
The history teacher had lived in France for many years and stood in at short notice. She was VERY worried that her sick colleague had not done her duty by us, and we had to lear... See more It was actually my history teacher who started me on this tack, when I was 15 and a lot of people here were not yet born. Even Billy Gates was only about ten years old, so spellcheckers were teachers with red pens.
And our French teacher was off sick for a several months up to our O-Level exams!
The history teacher had lived in France for many years and stood in at short notice. She was VERY worried that her sick colleague had not done her duty by us, and we had to learn some short cuts.
Take a deep breath. (It's time well spent, even in an exam room!)
Check one thing at a time.
Accents - are they all correct and consistent?
Punctuation?
Agreement (masculine/feminine, verb and subject, etc.)
I don't remember all the details, and it varies from one language to another, but it was worth it.
The history teacher also drilled us in our verbs, other rules, genders, and this and that, so that we knew how to avoid a lot of careless mistakes first time around. I learnt as much French in those three months as in a couple of years before!
Most imortant, I learnt DISCIPLINE, which applies to all languages.
The mechanical props are sometimes useful, but the principles are the same.
(I sometimes use 'find and replace' to catch all the times I write form instead of from, which the spell checker doesn't catch, but you still have to concentrate!) ▲ Collapse
| | | | AnnaSCHTR
United States
Local time: 01:35
English to Czech
+ ...
In addition to all the great advice here, I'd like to add something I learned by reading this forum - if you have a time, read the text again from the end to the beginning. Many little mistakes are overlooked when our brain is a bit tired. I also cannot trust spellcheck in my main language, and as a life-long speed reader I would overlook some errors if I didn't force myself to concentrate at one thing at the time. And I need a few hours between translation and proofing.
Another thing - I ... See more In addition to all the great advice here, I'd like to add something I learned by reading this forum - if you have a time, read the text again from the end to the beginning. Many little mistakes are overlooked when our brain is a bit tired. I also cannot trust spellcheck in my main language, and as a life-long speed reader I would overlook some errors if I didn't force myself to concentrate at one thing at the time. And I need a few hours between translation and proofing.
Another thing - I have a list of my frequent typos. Not proud of it, but muscle memory is a strange thing. So at the end, I do a search for those words, which of course look perfectly OK and are not caught as spelling mistakes. ▲ Collapse
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Kay Denney
France
Local time: 08:35
French to English
You're right Christine, it does help to have a check-list.
I very often stop and do a search and replace right the way through to check up on a term if it appears more than once.
If I have several files to work on, then these points go on a list to go through as I check each file.
I also have my own mini "style guide" to make sure I always write the date and times the same way along with other things that can vary. For example I always write 2 May 2013 w... See more You're right Christine, it does help to have a check-list.
I very often stop and do a search and replace right the way through to check up on a term if it appears more than once.
If I have several files to work on, then these points go on a list to go through as I check each file.
I also have my own mini "style guide" to make sure I always write the date and times the same way along with other things that can vary. For example I always write 2 May 2013 with hard spacing and the figure by itself in case the client changes the date and ends up with 1nd or 2th.
I have several lists of words I tend to get wrong: for example "one word, hyphen or two words" (like website, web-site or web site), to ensure consistency even if all versions exist, and words like form and from, public with or without the l, stationery and stationary. I used to print them up and stick them on the wall as a reminder so I wouldn't have to open the file up.
There's also the "perfect it" software which apparently can help with consistency etc. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mark Hamlen
France
Local time: 08:35
French to English
+ ...
| Know yourself | May 31, 2013 |
I have standard mistakes that slip into my typing (because I'm thinking ahead and my fingers go on autopilot) and I know them (and none of them can be found by spell check):
OR in the place of OF
SENT in the place of SEND
IS in the place of IT or ITS
and a few others. They are on a mental checklist.
I normally pay a lot of attention to these words (even searching for all of the occurrences).
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1. Sleep. Don't overwork yourself. Be fresh. A tired mind plays tricks on you like you wouldn't believe. A while ago I was applying somewhere and wrote, 'thank you for your like,' instead of, 'thank you for your time.' I'm still at a loss as to how that's even possible, forget being able to identify a connection. I've also had similar incidents in Polish. You really need to be as well-rested as possible.
2. Spend more time on each segment, sentence, short paragraph or some other manageable... See more 1. Sleep. Don't overwork yourself. Be fresh. A tired mind plays tricks on you like you wouldn't believe. A while ago I was applying somewhere and wrote, 'thank you for your like,' instead of, 'thank you for your time.' I'm still at a loss as to how that's even possible, forget being able to identify a connection. I've also had similar incidents in Polish. You really need to be as well-rested as possible.
2. Spend more time on each segment, sentence, short paragraph or some other manageable unit of text. If you hurry less when translating, you will not be slowed down so much by proofing your work. Proofing your own work is a nightmare anyway, so you might as well do it right the first time (but still check it).
Perhaps a third. Keeping tabs on yourself could help if you can't get rid of a bad habit, just like getting out of an addiction. Twenty this week, eighteen next week, then down to sixteen... up to seventeen, not good! Gotta watch it... fifteen... thirteen... until it comes close to zero but probably won't reach it.
Dedicated professional proofreaders exist for a reason. Not everybody has the type of mindset and aptitude it takes to be one. Forcing everyone to learn to be his own proofer is counter-productive. It's better to have translators translate and proofreaders proofread. Translators could deliver quite a lot of new profitable work during the time it takes them to proofread and edit themselves due to not-so-smart-after-all one-person-TEP cost savings, while the same task could take a fraction of the time and yield better results with a real proofreader in place. (Agencies, hear me!).
[Edited at 2013-06-20 00:56 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 02:35
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
| Time required | Jun 20, 2013 |
Perhaps I could add one more that trips me up sometimes:
- Schedule enough time for checking
When you're under the gun to deliver by the deadline and you're still translating, how are you going to have time to re-read it twice? Knowing how long a job is going to take to translate and check, plus all the other steps that might be needed to deliver, is important to avoid mistakes.
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| Proofread a little as you go | Jun 20, 2013 |
Especially if you are using a CAT tool where the segments are side-by-side, I recommend re-reading each target segment immediately after you translate it before moving on to the next one, to make sure you included everything (correctly) from the source segment. For me, it is much easier to catch errors at that time than it is to find them later on a full read-thru.
| | | | | Yes, this is a good approach | Jun 20, 2013 |
Orrin Cummins wrote:
Especially if you are using a CAT tool where the segments are side-by-side, I recommend re-reading each target segment immediately after you translate it before moving on to the next one, to make sure you included everything (correctly) from the source segment. For me, it is much easier to catch errors at that time than it is to find them later on a full read-thru.
Another tip I have for translations done with CAT tools (which I use on translations even if there are no matches or repetitions): translate using the method above, leave it aside if you have time, pick it up again, read just the target to smooth out sentence structure and flow plus catch spelling and other errors, then read again against the source language to make sure you didn't alter the meaning in the previous step.
Another thing you can do is proofread in stages - first check the numbers, then the names, then spelling, formatting, etc. It's difficult to catch everything if you're trying to check too many things at once.
| | | | Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 02:35
German to English
| Quck review before restarting | Jun 20, 2013 |
Many, if not most of my projects take more than one day. After taking an extended break or when starting work the next day, I take a look at the text up to that point. Sometimes I find that I've used a different term or phrase at the start of the translation, but have changed it as I've gotten more involved in the text. It also helps to get me back into the proper frame of mind. I also do random spot checks after taking a short break. if I catch more than one or two errors, I go through the enti... See more Many, if not most of my projects take more than one day. After taking an extended break or when starting work the next day, I take a look at the text up to that point. Sometimes I find that I've used a different term or phrase at the start of the translation, but have changed it as I've gotten more involved in the text. It also helps to get me back into the proper frame of mind. I also do random spot checks after taking a short break. if I catch more than one or two errors, I go through the entire translation to see if there are more problems.
I tend to run a spell check as I go along, although spell checking software won't catch typos that are actual words. I try to use MemoQ when I translate, as it has a QA feature that catches technical errors (mismatched numbers/tags, extra spaces, etc.). If I'm working with ttx files, I use XBench to perform similar tasks.
However, nothing surpasses a careful reading -- or two -- of the final product.
As others have mentioned, always allow for checking in your time budget. I've been guilty of not taking extra time, and once or twice have even managed to send the wrong version of a file.
[edited to fix a typo not caught by the spell checker]
[Edited at 2013-06-21 13:54 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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