New Whitehall style guide bans jargon
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| | Mark
Local time: 22:16
Italian to English
I'd hardly call that jargon. It's just, well, language mostly.
If they need any help with the next draft, I'd suggest:
'Spades shall be referred to as "spades".'
Edit: I should have read the whole thing, obviously. There's definitely some pointless jargon in there too.
[Edited at 2013-07-31 16:00 GMT]
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 22:16
Spanish to English
+ ...
| More fudge, Minister? | Jul 31, 2013 |
Banning jargon sounds great at first, but a closer look reveals that the exhortation (or is that also too long and recondite?) not to "use formal or long words when easy or short ones will do" leaves the question of when something "will do" more or less up to the user. Which I suppose is OK, since now we can decide when we want to be formal or not.
However, the instructions to "use ‘buy’ instead of ‘purchase’, ‘help’ instead of ‘assist’, ‘about’ instead of ‘ap... See more Banning jargon sounds great at first, but a closer look reveals that the exhortation (or is that also too long and recondite?) not to "use formal or long words when easy or short ones will do" leaves the question of when something "will do" more or less up to the user. Which I suppose is OK, since now we can decide when we want to be formal or not.
However, the instructions to "use ‘buy’ instead of ‘purchase’, ‘help’ instead of ‘assist’, ‘about’ instead of ‘approximately’ and ‘like’ instead of ‘such as’"... is simply telling us to ignore the time-honoured difference between formal and informal registers. In other words, it's not just simplifying, but dumbing down to suit the lowest common denominator. Like telling those unfortunates among us who can't handle the apostrophe to just leave them out. A cop out, however well-intentioned. A fudge. Good for a laugh if nothing else. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Inge Luus 
South Africa
Local time: 22:16
Member (2008)
German to English
+ ...
| Just write any old how | Aug 2, 2013 |
So, I suppose that now instead of "receiving grants such as childcare grants", it is now in order to say "get grants like childcare grants". As translators, translating into "native" English, I suppose that puts us off the hook from trying to get that phrase just right, and we can now, literally, write the first thing that comes to mind (??). Assuming, of course, that these guidelines filter into all writing...
| | | | | Could someone please send them a copy of Plain Words? | Aug 2, 2013 |
Sir Ernest Gowers must be rolling in his grave!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Plain-Words-Ernest-Gowers/dp/0140511997
I have not got hold of the original books from 1948 and about 1954...
But I still treasure my copy, revised by Sir Bruce Fraser, Pelican 1973.
The latest revision by Greenbaum and Whitcut is shorter, ... See more Sir Ernest Gowers must be rolling in his grave!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Plain-Words-Ernest-Gowers/dp/0140511997
I have not got hold of the original books from 1948 and about 1954...
But I still treasure my copy, revised by Sir Bruce Fraser, Pelican 1973.
The latest revision by Greenbaum and Whitcut is shorter, but retains the spirit of the original - allowing for good style and clarity without dumbing down.
Sir Ernest Gowers (1880 - 1966) knew from extensive practical experience what he was doing, and both books are healthy - and quite entertaining - goodnight reading.
There is a 'buzz phrase generator', attributed to the Canadian Defence Department, in the earlier book under a section 'For Amusement only'.
The modern version includes a list of 'Words to be used with caution' - and explains why. But it does not forbid their use.
The new book is money well spent - and no one could call it expensive... ▲ Collapse
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Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 13:16
English to German
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In memoriam | Is it still OK to deliver babies | Aug 2, 2013 |
even if they don't fit into a pizza box or a regular envelope?
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 01:46
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | So not only non-natives murder the English language | Aug 3, 2013 |
The government of uk seems to be an equal front runner in this enterprise!
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 01:46
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
Nicole Schnell wrote:
Is it still OK to deliver babies
even if they don't fit into a pizza box or a regular envelope?
You will have to give birth to them, now, or bring a child into the world, unless you would prefer(or rather the gov, of uk would prefer) to litter a child. But it might not, then, for you litter garbage, not children.
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:16
Hebrew to English
| The Whitehall Bubble | Aug 3, 2013 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
The government of uk seems to be an equal front runner in this enterprise!
Well, they're hardly "murdering" the language by issuing a few directives about plain language use in a VERY RESTRICTED context. No doubt there's some throwing out of the baby with the bathwater, but quite a lot of those words and phrases are quite hated (for example"going forward" has a very bad rep)
Who cares how they phrase things in the Whitehall bubble? Nobody listens to them anyway.
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Kay Denney
France
Local time: 22:16
French to English
| Nicole do you not read the newspapers? | Aug 3, 2013 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
Is it still OK to deliver babies
even if they don't fit into a pizza box or a regular envelope?
The jargon is "to be delivered of a baby", please! Did you miss out on all the buzz about the Hallowed Royal Baby???
Those of us who are interested in childbirth found that expression extremely weird and concluded that it meant they did a C-section, given the passive tense.
Turns out she had a totally natural birth, no painkillers, nuffink. They could have announced that Kate "gave birth", to honour her proactive stance with language to reflect what actually happened.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 22:16
French to English
| Bala might just be agreeing for once... | Aug 3, 2013 |
Ty Kendall wrote: Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
The government of uk seems to be an equal front runner in this enterprise! Well, they're hardly "murdering" the language by issuing a few directives about plain language use in a VERY RESTRICTED context.
To be fair, Ty, Bala might just mean that all the "going forwards" are what is murdering the language. So deciding forthwith that we must no longer assist the going forward approach would actually mean that you agree somewhat?
Ty Kendall wrote:
No doubt there's some throwing out of the baby with the bathwater,
and please, I don't care for the royal family in the least but let's not throw little Georgie Boy out with the bath water, he's still an innocent little mite!
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 01:46
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | The Whitehall Bubble Effect | Aug 4, 2013 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
No doubt there's some throwing out of the baby with the bathwater,
Well, it seems to be having quite an effect on your English at any rate.
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:16
Hebrew to English
| Enlighten me... | Aug 4, 2013 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote: Ty Kendall wrote:
No doubt there's some throwing out of the baby with the bathwater, Well, it seems to be having quite an effect on your English at any rate.
How so?
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