Physical dictionaries etc - which ones and how many to buy? Thread poster: Vivien Green
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While I am currently making extensive use of online dictionaries and resources I am aware that there may come a day when my internet connection starts playing up when I have a deadline to meet. It therefore seems a good idea to invest in some back up materials, old school dictionaries made of paper etc.
I'm just wondering which to go for and how many I need. Given I only started out as a translator relatively recently I still do not really have any strong areas of specialisation,... See more While I am currently making extensive use of online dictionaries and resources I am aware that there may come a day when my internet connection starts playing up when I have a deadline to meet. It therefore seems a good idea to invest in some back up materials, old school dictionaries made of paper etc.
I'm just wondering which to go for and how many I need. Given I only started out as a translator relatively recently I still do not really have any strong areas of specialisation, although law and finance/economics might suit me well. I have a large Collins Roberts dictionary that I have been using since school (I've renewed it several times - I'm not using the edition I had when I was 16) but nothing else so far.
Can anyone tell me what they use and if there's anything in particular they'd recommend? Thank you! ▲ Collapse
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Between physical and other dictionaries it's a matter of personal taste. It mostly boils down to what you are more comfortable using. (And in some cases perhaps the price.)
At any rate, since you mention law and finance, I'd look at Black's. Black's is basically the dictionary for law, not like I ever use it, but anyway.
For bilingual dictionaries, I would consider both French and English productions to avoid bias and to have the perspective of native speakers ... See more Between physical and other dictionaries it's a matter of personal taste. It mostly boils down to what you are more comfortable using. (And in some cases perhaps the price.)
At any rate, since you mention law and finance, I'd look at Black's. Black's is basically the dictionary for law, not like I ever use it, but anyway.
For bilingual dictionaries, I would consider both French and English productions to avoid bias and to have the perspective of native speakers of both the source and the target as to what consitutes a good equivalent.
[Edited at 2013-07-22 21:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Paula Dieli 
United States
Local time: 21:11
French to English
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| Good monolingual dictionaries for FR>EN translators | Jul 22, 2013 |
I agree with Łukasz, and in addition to Black's, I can recommend "Le Petit Robert" for an all French dictionary. For an all English dictionary, of course the OED is a great resource but I use it online, not just because it's more convenient but also since the hardcopy version runs you upwards of US$370.
| | | | 564354352 (X)
Denmark
Local time: 06:11
Danish to English
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| Avoid them if you possibly can - buy electronic dictionaries | Jul 23, 2013 |
As you get used to the speed at which you will need to work as an independent translator, I think you will find that having to look words up in hard copy dictionaries is just way too time-consuming. Especially as you get used to having your online dictionaries at your fingertips. I would therefore recommend that wherever possible, you opt for electronic dictionaries that you can install on your computer, so that they are still available even if the Internet is down.
To demonstrate h... See more As you get used to the speed at which you will need to work as an independent translator, I think you will find that having to look words up in hard copy dictionaries is just way too time-consuming. Especially as you get used to having your online dictionaries at your fingertips. I would therefore recommend that wherever possible, you opt for electronic dictionaries that you can install on your computer, so that they are still available even if the Internet is down.
To demonstrate how maddening I found it to have to use a hard copy dictionary on one of my specialisation subjects, I actually once took the time to type it all into an Excel sheet, which I then converted to a MultiTerm file. It took me ages, and it was very tedious work, but the time was worth it as now this dictionary is available at a click... ▲ Collapse
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| Completely necessary | Jul 23, 2013 |
Online glossaries and dictionaries are too often plagued with mistakes, particularly those built for online uses only and most especially crowdsourced ones, i.e. those with no relation to a proper scientifically-planned corpus in the sense of those used to make the printed dictionaries. To me, online glossaries and dictionaries are only a possible starting point when I have to research some term.
Most specialised dictionaries only exist on paper. I would definitely favour dictionari... See more Online glossaries and dictionaries are too often plagued with mistakes, particularly those built for online uses only and most especially crowdsourced ones, i.e. those with no relation to a proper scientifically-planned corpus in the sense of those used to make the printed dictionaries. To me, online glossaries and dictionaries are only a possible starting point when I have to research some term.
Most specialised dictionaries only exist on paper. I would definitely favour dictionaries on paper in specialised topics, mostly because the dictionary is directly linked to the name of those individuals and organisations that made it, funded it, and edited it (all printed in the cover!), and is therefore produced with the maximum care.
And, may I add that printed dictionaries are the long-term, non-perishable, environmental choice: they will last and serve you for decades, consume no energy once they are printed and transported to your place, and the media they are printed on can be recycled very easily indeed with no health and safety concerns (compare with the masses of devices pouring over countries with slack environmental/labour regulations).
Printed books are also positive on the carbon footprint since paper captures carbon. At the end of your professional life, you can even give them to the next user with no compatibility issues at all... as long as the next user can read of course. I inherited a technical German-Spanish dictionary my father bought back in the 1960's and the thing still serves me very nicely many times every year. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Wrong premise | Jul 23, 2013 |
Gitte Hovedskov, MCIL wrote:
As you get used to the speed at which you will need to work as an independent translator, I think you will find that having to look words up in hard copy dictionaries is just way too time-consuming. Especially as you get used to having your online dictionaries at your fingertips. I would therefore recommend that wherever possible, you opt for electronic dictionaries that you can install on your computer, so that they are still available even if the Internet is down.
Who said the fastest option is the best option? The dictionary on paper will give you a pile of examples and grammar information which is missing in so many online resources. Going to grab the dictionary from the bookcase is good for you, and it allows you to think for some seconds about the sentence you are translating, as opposed to dismissing the matter based on what the online resource says, often too uncritically.
| | | | 564354352 (X)
Denmark
Local time: 06:11
Danish to English
+ ...
Hence the 'if you possibly can' in my comment. 
I simply meant that if you can get the specialist dictionaries that you need in both a hard copy and an electronic version, opt for the electronic version because it will save you time while working.
| | | | | If you want to buy monolingual dictionaries such as Oxford or Webster | Jul 23, 2013 |
why not -- they are great and they are also very appealing -- the way they look and feel. Some specialized monolingual dictionaries are also good -- like Black's Law Dictionary. I have heard that there are a lot of good French-English dictionaries as well.
As to some other languages -- I am very sceptical, especially in some of the language pairs that I work with. I would never buy a paper dictionary in those languages for any professional purpose. Even some of the dictionaries onl... See more why not -- they are great and they are also very appealing -- the way they look and feel. Some specialized monolingual dictionaries are also good -- like Black's Law Dictionary. I have heard that there are a lot of good French-English dictionaries as well.
As to some other languages -- I am very sceptical, especially in some of the language pairs that I work with. I would never buy a paper dictionary in those languages for any professional purpose. Even some of the dictionaries online are not too great -- many are outdated, the words are translated word for word. It is more of a disaster, sometimes. I think I would first have to check the accuracy of the dictionary -- overall -- spend a week or more doing it, before I could use the dictionary. In such cases only your personal knowledge and research may help you to solve some linguistic problems. This might not be the case with French and English though.
[Edited at 2013-07-23 11:24 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| I'd rather invest in a mobile Internet connection | Jul 23, 2013 |
I don't think that any dictionary can match the Internet. What will you do if you have to find out how a certain Microsoft product or function is called in your target language? And what will your dictionary have to say about the features of XY's new smartphone that will be released next month?
I mean, a paper dictionary is better than nothing - but what you really need is an idea of how to get Internet access when your computer is giving you trouble. Will it be a mobile Internet co... See more I don't think that any dictionary can match the Internet. What will you do if you have to find out how a certain Microsoft product or function is called in your target language? And what will your dictionary have to say about the features of XY's new smartphone that will be released next month?
I mean, a paper dictionary is better than nothing - but what you really need is an idea of how to get Internet access when your computer is giving you trouble. Will it be a mobile Internet connection? A friend who'll let you work from their house for a couple of days? A public library? A second computer? A smartphone? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I'm fond of physical dictionaries but... | Jul 23, 2013 |
I would agree with Gitte in that, in practical terms, they hardly ever get used.
It's so much easier to go into a dictionary on your computer, type in a word and let your computer do the searching and find the word before you can blink, than flick through pages yourself, because the latter is not a practical use of your time.
Here, I am talking about 'proper' dictionaries that you have to pay for. You can get online versions of dictionaries and versions on CD-Rom or download... See more I would agree with Gitte in that, in practical terms, they hardly ever get used.
It's so much easier to go into a dictionary on your computer, type in a word and let your computer do the searching and find the word before you can blink, than flick through pages yourself, because the latter is not a practical use of your time.
Here, I am talking about 'proper' dictionaries that you have to pay for. You can get online versions of dictionaries and versions on CD-Rom or downloadable versions. (The Robert & Collins being one of them. See here: http://www.lerobert.com/espace-numerique/enligne/le-grand-robert-collins-en-ligne-12-mois.html)
To me, using paper dictionaries for professional translation work is tantamount to using libraries to research a subject when you have the internet, and using a quill to produce your work when you have a computer, and the post to send it off when you have e-mail.
Don't get me wrong...I love libraries, stationery and snail mail. I just don't think they're practical for work. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:11
Hebrew to English
| Some of us have no choice | Jul 23, 2013 |
Marie-Helene Dubois wrote:
To me, using paper dictionaries for professional translation work is tantamount to using libraries to research a subject when you have the internet, and using a quill to produce your work when you have a computer, and the post to send it off when you have e-mail.
Don't get me wrong...I love libraries, stationery and snail mail. I just don't think they're practical for work.
The vast majority of dictionaries in my language pair are all paper dictionaries, indeed all the best ones are and also the specialist dictionaries - all paper.
There are two decent online generic dictionaries (Morfix) which I swear by and Rav-Milim which others swear by. Morfix is free but Rav-Milim requires a subscription and both require an internet connection.
So, at least in my language pair, I would say paper dictionaries are still a necessity, not that I'm complaining, I love paper dictionaries!
Besides, CD-ROMs don't look as good in a bookcase
Note to OP: Sorry I haven't been very helpful in your original question!
[Edited at 2013-07-23 13:47 GMT]
| | | | | My choice... | Jul 23, 2013 |
... is the program WordFinder which can be completed with a variety of dictionaries, own glossaries, etc. I would be at a loss without it. Easy to toggle through, select and paste suitable words into target text.
Ideal too for storing all sorts of information, including clients`preferences for particular terms.
Am I the only person on Proz who uses it?
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| I use both media every day. | Sep 30, 2013 |
I work in several languages. For most of them I find print dictionaries indispensable, and I prefer to have a good print dictionary available for any language. Among the European languages, German probably has the best free resources available on the web—most notably leo.de. But, as some contributors have already observed here, even some very good on-line resources are plagued by errors and poor style. Printed books aren't immune to error, of course, and one can easily find bad books; but ... See more I work in several languages. For most of them I find print dictionaries indispensable, and I prefer to have a good print dictionary available for any language. Among the European languages, German probably has the best free resources available on the web—most notably leo.de. But, as some contributors have already observed here, even some very good on-line resources are plagued by errors and poor style. Printed books aren't immune to error, of course, and one can easily find bad books; but in general the standards for printed resources tend to be higher, and their editing stricter.
The typical on-line dictionary is often faster if all I want is a common English equivalent for a foreign word; but it often requires several searches, and therefore takes me much longer than a book, when I'm looking for just the right shade of meaning. I find that very few online resources (at least the free ones that I've discovered) offer much in the way of usage, grammar, or style, all of which tend to be covered by printed dictionaries.
There are, of course, on-line and CD-ROM versions of printed dictionaries, for which one pays, and I have little experience with those. It appears to me, however, that many or most of them rely primarily, if not exclusively, on word-searches, as the free web sites do, and so are subject to many of the same limitations, even if their editing is better.
Printed dictionaries make it much easier to search for related concepts, and to work in both directions. I will often look up a foreign word in the [Foreign language]-English dictionary, and then look up one or more of the English equivalents in the English-[Foreign language] dictionary, to get a better understanding of the foreign word's implications. I find it much easier to do that with printed dictionaries than with web sites.
Printed dictionaries also let you find related terms and alternative words far more easily than most on-line dictionaries, just by running your eye down the page. And, of course, if you misspell a word, many on-line dictionaries will simply return no hits, whereas any printed dictionary will allow you to find your word, even if you're not quite sure how it's spelt.
But really, this discussion has not addressed the original question: which printed dictionaries should a translator get, and how many does one need? I'll post my suggestions in a separate reply.
[Edited at 2013-09-30 16:37 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Thank you everyone for your replies! | Oct 14, 2013 |
I somehow managed to lose this thread and I thought it had been deleted so my apologies for not posting sooner. It doesn't seem to show up when I google my name in the proz search field whereas my other threads do, which is all very strange!
Since I first posted I have become a bit clearer in what I'm looking for. In particular I would really like a French to English dictionary of legal terms giving suggested English language renderings as well as full explanations of the term's m... See more I somehow managed to lose this thread and I thought it had been deleted so my apologies for not posting sooner. It doesn't seem to show up when I google my name in the proz search field whereas my other threads do, which is all very strange!
Since I first posted I have become a bit clearer in what I'm looking for. In particular I would really like a French to English dictionary of legal terms giving suggested English language renderings as well as full explanations of the term's meaning in the relevant country's legal system. If possible a dictionary that contains legal terms from every major French speaking country rather than being limited to France alone.
I had a look at Black's legal dictionaries but I struggled to find out whether they consist mostly of terms used in the English speaking world with a few foreign terms included when they are of major importance or whether they contain a fairly comprehensive set of terms from all languages (which I can't imagine would really be possible but then I don't see how it could be that useful for translators (other than those translating into English) unless this was the case). I'm translating into French.
I'll definitely consider both print and electronic resources, the discussion was helpful. In response to Petra_44, I have a 2nd computer and have various other backup plans but I want to cover as many eventualities as possible.
Regarding the debate as to the quality of online dictionaries, I find reverso and wordreference to be just as good and sometimes better than the paper dictionary I already have (and I cross-check all new terms). I have also recently invested in wordfinder (which uses Larousse language dictionaries) and I wouldn't say it is necessarily better than many of the online sources I use (although it's always great having an additional dictionary to consult and it is a good quality general dictionary). Hearing everyone else's opinion is very interesting though and I'll definitely look into any resource that is recommended by other professionals. ▲ Collapse
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