| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21] > | translation is dead as a profession Thread poster: Daniel Rich
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Baran Keki 
Türkiye
Local time: 21:17
Member
English to Turkish
| Depends on where you live | Apr 6, 2023 |
Stephen Emm wrote:
but what is the attraction for the younger generation to become translators when you can't really make a decent living off it?
If you're not too fussy about where you live, you can make a more than decent living. I occasionally see Dutch or Swedish translators here hailing from countries like Peru, Philippines, Thailand etc.. they must be living the high life in those places if they're working with European agencies (well, their body clock must suffer as a result of that, but you've gotta make sacrifices, no?).
I don't know about the British youth (you must know them better, being a teacher), but the younger generation here is mostly clueless as far as the mastery of their target (and source) languages due to not having read any books in their lives (reading stuff on social media or watching TV series on streaming services doesn't improve your literacy and linguistic skills that much, it would seem). So I increasingly notice that the MT is producing a lot better output than young human translators, which is a worrying sign, but also an encouraging sign in that you see how crap they are and it makes you realize how good you actually are (thanks to the education received prior to the advent of the internet).
I make decent money out of this job, but there are other aspects of it that I truly hate about like unpredictability, having to be available all the time, being deskbound and cooped up at home etc.
If I could back in time I'd have chosen a different profession for those reasons alone, not because of financial concerns.
| | | | Joe France
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:17
Member (2016)
German to English
+ ...
| Not wholly accurate | Apr 6, 2023 |
Stephen Emm wrote:
True to some extent, but what is the attraction for the younger generation to become translators when you can't really make a decent living off it?
Clinging on to my twenties for dear life, so not sure if I'm quite the "younger generation" you mean - or if you're referring to people in their teens/at university thinking about a future career, but you absolutely can make a decent living from translation. I mean, I am looking to diversify my skillset, qualifications and expertise to give me the option of an off-ramp into another industry at some point in the future. However, I'm only able to do that because I've made a solid living from translation over the last seven years or so.
Is there more competition than ever? Yes.
Do technological trends (MT, etc.) pose significant challenges? Yes.
Is it impossible to make a decent living? No.
I'm not blindly optimistic, but there are a whole host of young translators (i.e. under 35 y.o.) I know of, either personally or from their profiles on this site, including in competitive language pairs. Many of them are perfectly competent, too – before we get onto the age-old refrain of bashing every translator without 20 years' experience. Not everyone will succeed, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.
[Edited at 2023-04-06 14:16 GMT]
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 20:17
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
| Thoughts (and prayers) | Apr 6, 2023 |
Stephen Emm wrote:
This is not "tunnel vision" but rather looking at the general developments in the translation industry, rather than just focusing on your own practice.
Looking at the general developments also includes adapting to it. I'm able to offer a reduced MTPE rate without earning less money in general. In the mean time I'm still doing mainly conventional translation, but looking at certain trends without acting on it might not be the best idea. Things change and that goes for every profession.
Stephen Emm wrote:
Sure, some people have lots of direct customers and a rarer language pair which is great for them, but most translators rely on agencies to provide work to a lesser or greater extent and have been impacted by the changes in the industry,
I have one direct client that represents about 1% of my turnover. All my other clients are agencies (only 4 of them are Belgian, so I wouldn't over-estimate my 'bilingual' situation) that offer me loads of work, mainly conventional translation work. You just can't generalize.
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Stephen Emm wrote:
True to some extent, but what is the attraction for the younger generation to become translators when you can't really make a decent living off it?
I do.
If people don't enter the industry or leave the industry as they are currently doing in droves, what is the future?
Don’t they? Are they? There’s no shortage of translators. If there were, prices would be rising.
It is the large translation companies and new technology that are driving prices down - not poorly-paid translators.
It’s not the agencies. They are just agencies. It’s the translators who work for less. They do this because there are too many translators.
I largely share your pessimistic outlook and wouldn’t recommend translation as a career, but oddly I don’t agree with anything at all you say. Plenty of people are thriving. It’s too easy to blame “the market”.
[Edited at 2023-04-06 16:42 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-04-12 05:20 GMT]
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Peng Zi
China
Local time: 02:17
Member (2021)
Russian to Chinese
+ ...
Especially with the advent of ChatGPT, the translation industry may face even more challenges. However, based on my experience using ChatGPT, its best role is still as a translation assistance tool (for polishing text). Moreover, it may provide inaccurate information for the topics it is not familiar with or has no knowledge about. Therefore, it still requires a considerable amount of human intervention. As an audio industry professional, when translating, I naturally refer to ChatGPT for text p... See more Especially with the advent of ChatGPT, the translation industry may face even more challenges. However, based on my experience using ChatGPT, its best role is still as a translation assistance tool (for polishing text). Moreover, it may provide inaccurate information for the topics it is not familiar with or has no knowledge about. Therefore, it still requires a considerable amount of human intervention. As an audio industry professional, when translating, I naturally refer to ChatGPT for text polishing, but I never trust it for the topics I am not familiar with. ▲ Collapse
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Peng Zi wrote:
Especially with the advent of ChatGPT, the translation industry may face even more challenges. However, based on my experience using ChatGPT, its best role is still as a translation assistance tool (for polishing text). Moreover, it may provide inaccurate information for the topics it is not familiar with or has no knowledge about. Therefore, it still requires a considerable amount of human intervention. As an audio industry professional, when translating, I naturally refer to ChatGPT for text polishing, but I never trust it for the topics I am not familiar with.
Did you you it to polish that post?🤔
| | | | | The long-term view? | Apr 11, 2023 |
Lieven Malaise wrote: Stephen Emm wrote:
This is not "tunnel vision" but rather looking at the general developments in the translation industry, rather than just focusing on your own practice. Looking at the general developments also includes adapting to it. I'm able to offer a reduced MTPE rate without earning less money in general. In the mean time I'm still doing mainly conventional translation, but looking at certain trends without acting on it might not be the best idea. Things change and that goes for every profession. Stephen Emm wrote:
Sure, some people have lots of direct customers and a rarer language pair which is great for them, but most translators rely on agencies to provide work to a lesser or greater extent and have been impacted by the changes in the industry, I have one direct client that represents about 1% of my turnover. All my other clients are agencies (only 4 of them are Belgian, so I wouldn't over-estimate my 'bilingual' situation) that offer me loads of work, mainly conventional translation work. You just can't generalize. But you are aware that the amount of the MTPE work is only going to increase? How will you maintain your income, when the majority of your work is MTPE? Also, you charge .09 euros per source word, some French to English translators were charging this rate over 20 years' ago! What does that tell you about translation rates and the general trends in the industry? Not particularly healthy, I would say. Of course, you can make a living from it, for now... It would be really interesting to know, on an anonymous forum perhaps, how much people actually earn and how many hours they work as this would give a true picture of the earnings situation.
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Baran Keki wrote: Stephen Emm wrote:
but what is the attraction for the younger generation to become translators when you can't really make a decent living off it? If you're not too fussy about where you live, you can make a more than decent living. I occasionally see Dutch or Swedish translators here hailing from countries like Peru, Philippines, Thailand etc.. they must be living the high life in those places if they're working with European agencies (well, their body clock must suffer as a result of that, but you've gotta make sacrifices, no?). I don't know about the British youth (you must know them better, being a teacher), but the younger generation here is mostly clueless as far as the mastery of their target (and source) languages due to not having read any books in their lives (reading stuff on social media or watching TV series on streaming services doesn't improve your literacy and linguistic skills that much, it would seem). So I increasingly notice that the MT is producing a lot better output than young human translators, which is a worrying sign, but also an encouraging sign in that you see how crap they are and it makes you realize how good you actually are (thanks to the education received prior to the advent of the internet). I make decent money out of this job, but there are other aspects of it that I truly hate about like unpredictability, having to be available all the time, being deskbound and cooped up at home etc. If I could back in time I'd have chosen a different profession for those reasons alone, not because of financial concerns.
I agree, if I were a young British translator coming into the profession now, I would probably move abroad to a low cost country and live comfortably over there.
I got to the position where I had a wife and family to support and the income from translation became too unpredictable.
The increasing number of PMTE jobs and rate stagnation meant that I needed to find a more secure profession, but I imagine that you can make a comfortable living working in your language pair.
I hope you continue to!
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 21:17
Member
English to Turkish
Stephen Emm wrote:
The increasing number of PMTE jobs and rate stagnation meant that I needed to find a more secure profession, but I imagine that you can make a comfortable living working in your language pair.
I hope you continue to!
Btw there was this young chap (translating from Russian and Norwegian) from the USA who claimed to have broken the record of 100k a year about 2 years ago. I remember a few forum members making similar claims as well (one was from UK, other from Portugal if memory serves). One of your countrymen (who sought asylum in Wales) said that he bought 2 houses in the UK from translation. So it seems that making a decent living in the affluent countries is still possible. But the general mood is one of pessimism these days what with the infernal ChatGPT and all that...
[Edited at 2023-04-11 13:30 GMT]
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 20:17
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
| Answers to questions | Apr 11, 2023 |
Stephen Emm wrote:
But you are aware that the amount of the MTPE work is only going to increase? How will you maintain your income, when the majority of your work is MTPE?
It already doesn't matter, because I make up for the lower rate by increased speed (and that's why I can offer a lower rate in the first place). I post-edit more words per day, but in the same time as conventional translation. So one conventional translation hour earns me the same money as one post-editing hour. It basically comes down to the holy principle of translation : make sure your translation and post-editing rate match your hourly rate.
Stephen Emm wrote:
Also, you charge .09 euros per source word, some French to English translators were charging this rate over 20 years' ago! What does that tell you about translation rates and the general trends in the industry? Not particularly healthy, I would say.
I started about 18 years ago with a rate of 0.07 and it allowed me to make a living out of it, including for my family, in a time where my translation speed was about half of what it is now. I don't know what it says about translation rates. Perhaps that translators at some point used to be overpaid.
Stephen Emm wrote:
Of course, you can make a living from it, for now...
See above. I make a living from it since 2005 and earn today about twice as much as my first full year (2006). I'll let you know when my ship has sunk (if everything goes to plan, it will sink together with the whole translation industry and human kind in general). Don't expect me to start whining about it, though. I'll just switch a button in my head and start working wherever my services are still useful, even if it has nothing to do with languages.
Stephen Emm wrote:
It would be really interesting to know, on an anonymous forum perhaps, how much people actually earn and how many hours they work as this would give a true picture of the earnings situation.
And why exactly would you have to know that ? Like every other Far West industry where every clown is able to start working in it (for example like the catering business) you have people who do well and an awful lot of other people who fail miserably, mainly because they are in one way or another not fit to succeed in this business.
[Edited at 2023-04-11 14:36 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-04-11 14:37 GMT]
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 22:17
English to Arabic
+ ...
| To MT-subordinates. Something Head of State! | Apr 16, 2023 |
Original tweet, in English:
"the PM and @POTUS reflected on the transformative legacy"
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1646141120051568645?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet|twtr^true
Translated tweet, by Twitter, in Arabic:
"انعكس رئيس الوزراء و @POTUS �... See more Original tweet, in English:
"the PM and @POTUS reflected on the transformative legacy"
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1646141120051568645?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet|twtr^true
Translated tweet, by Twitter, in Arabic:
"انعكس رئيس الوزراء و @POTUS على الإرث التحويلي"
Which back-translates into:
"the PM and @POTUS mirrored on the metamorphous legacy"
Whereas the original meaning was:
"the PM and @POTUS pondered on the progress/advancement/development/improvement/betterment/etc.-causing/shaping/giving/etc. legacy"
I see no point in having such a translation in the first place. What could be the point of a translation if it can't convey the actual meaning?
That's now the point where MT is stuck, and MT-subordinates are, however, shamelessly 24/7 cheering a usable product. But, is it really? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:17
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Ice Scream wrote:
I wouldn’t recommend translation as a career
I wouldn't recommend anything as a career. Careers are over. We won't need to have careers any more. We'll have T E C H N O LO G Y to do them for us. We'll just live off the fat o' the land (apologies to Steinbeck).
[Edited at 2023-04-16 15:48 GMT]
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| Question of time | Apr 16, 2023 |
Sadek_A wrote:
I see no point in having such a translation in the first place. What could be the point of a translation if it can't convey the actual meaning?
That's now the point where MT is stuck, and MT-subordinates are, however, shamelessly 24/7 cheering a usable product. But, is it really?
Perhaps MT still only works better within "Western" languages (as you would probably put it) and still fails a bit between Germanic languages and Roman / Slavic languages. Arabic and all the Far Eastern languages have very different grammar compared to the Germanic languages and these combinations need more sophisticated algorithms and databases. But I'm sure that's only a question of time before even there MT will be able to deliver more usable results than today.
| | | | David GAY
Local time: 20:17
English to French
+ ...
Lieven Malaise wrote:
I post-edit more words per day, but in the same time as conventional translation.
so it s your trade secret...
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 20:17
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
David GAY wrote:
so it s your trade secret...
There is no secret. Only hard work, use of available tools, willingness to learn and patience.
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