| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21] > | translation is dead as a profession Thread poster: Daniel Rich
|
|---|
Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 20:15
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
| You alright ? | Apr 19, 2023 |
Sadek_A wrote:
Going Once...Going Twice...Sold!
We have a saying in Arabic: بقشِش من جيبك، مش من جيبنا
Which translates into: tip/be generous out of your own pocket, not ours!
Some fellas here think we are bound by their plans (or should I say, fantasies!)!
Allow me to spell it: NO ONE OWES YOU ANYTHING! That's what you always say around here, and I'm just repeating it for you!
| | | | | Because of what? | Apr 20, 2023 |
Sadek_A wrote: Matthias Brombach wrote:
Arabic and all the Far Eastern languages have very different grammar compared to the Germanic languages You seem to be confusing Grammar with just Basic Comprehension of the text. In the example, MT didn't fail grammar, it failed meaning.
Yes, and why did it fail the meaning? Because the algorithms aren't sophisticated enough to "align" something out of the two mentioned languages and other combinations, which are very dissimilar to each other, with the aid of a high statistical hit ratio, to produce something any meaningful to us. Nobody expects that DeepL "knows" what it translates (although some clients think it does). Those AI systems have no soul, we all know that. It then is still up to people, who understand and know both languages to hone the target, which still has to be the mother tongue of the person responsible for that task. I insist on my assumption that DeepL still hasn't the proper algorithms based on linguistic rules (aka grammar) and other human input, before it will produce acceptable results between the two languages you mentioned. It is a question of time. Alternatively, why not outsource that programming task to ChatGTP, if it is so intelligent as assumed?
[Bearbeitet am 2023-04-20 11:02 GMT]
| | | | Sadek_A 
Local time: 22:15
English to Arabic
+ ...
It's like we are living in a different dimension away from that weird planet ... what is it called? ... oh, yeah, Earth!
That dimension has no rising costs of living, no crushing inflation, no unjust FOREX prices, no beneficiary's money-receipt fees, no *d*ucking thing whatsoever!
There, We wake up every day to find all our daily needs secured in a gift basket, compliments of the fairies.
In order to give back, we discount our prices, because...who needs mo... See more It's like we are living in a different dimension away from that weird planet ... what is it called? ... oh, yeah, Earth!
That dimension has no rising costs of living, no crushing inflation, no unjust FOREX prices, no beneficiary's money-receipt fees, no *d*ucking thing whatsoever!
There, We wake up every day to find all our daily needs secured in a gift basket, compliments of the fairies.
In order to give back, we discount our prices, because...who needs money anyway in that dimension?!
But, we also show our sincerest appreciation by helping a dragon called mtmt who might end up eating us all. But, who cares?
That dimension is called MushyBushyLand! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 22:15
English to Arabic
+ ...
Matthias Brombach wrote:
Because of what?
Yes, and why did it fail the meaning? Because the algorithms aren't sophisticated enough to "align" something out of the two mentioned languages and other combinations, which are very dissimilar to each other, with the aid of a high statistical hit ratio, to produce something any meaningful to us. Nobody expects that DeepL "knows" what it translates (although some clients think it does). Those AI systems have no soul, we all know that. It then is still up to people, who understand and know both languages to hone the target, which still has to be the mother tongue of the person responsible for that task. I insist on my assumption that DeepL still hasn't the proper algorithms based on linguistic rules (aka grammar) and other human input, before it will produce acceptable results between the two languages you mentioned. It is a question of time. Alternatively, why not outsource that programming task to ChatGTP, if it is so intelligent as assumed?
[Bearbeitet am 2023-04-20 11:02 GMT]
Regarding that very specific example I provided, I would love to read your detailed take on how Grammar caused that mistranslation.
Perhaps, you could also provide a simple algorithm to fix that malfunction.
| | |
|
|
|
| Please don't speak for me | Apr 21, 2023 |
How you arrive at your translation is not the point. If you use Cat tools, work faster, and produce the excellent quality you offer with your service, then that's to your advantage and that of your client.
There's no machine that can be trusted for accuracy or style or length.
And making sure my end product is accurate and flawless is what I sell. Every time.
I don't agree with you on your rate recommendation. Please don't assume you know what I or others ... See more How you arrive at your translation is not the point. If you use Cat tools, work faster, and produce the excellent quality you offer with your service, then that's to your advantage and that of your client.
There's no machine that can be trusted for accuracy or style or length.
And making sure my end product is accurate and flawless is what I sell. Every time.
I don't agree with you on your rate recommendation. Please don't assume you know what I or others consider a reasonable price for the service you suggested.
Anna Grynfeld Smith wrote: Lieven Malaise wrote: Anna Grynfeld Smith wrote:
Also, I don't see anything wrong in working on MTPE projects as long as the rate is reasonable; either an hourly rate or approximately a third of your word rate. That would be 33% of your translation rate, which would be impossibly low. I suppose you mean two thirds ? . . . One third is very reasonable if it's a good quality MT. If it's not particularly good, I would insist on an hourly rate to ensure a fair fee. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 22:15
English to Arabic
+ ...
| Happiness, thy name is MT-failures! | Apr 22, 2023 |
A marketing campaign line, in Arabic, MTed clearly:
يمكن أن تكون الفلل في (المكان) رخيصة جداً لدرجة أنها شبه موهوبة
Which translates into: Villas in (xyz) could be so cheap they're semi/quasi skilled.
Whereas the original meaning must be:
Villas in (xyz) could be so cheap they're almost gifted/given-away.
***I'm sure this marketing campaign is getting its money's worth with this stinking translation.
| | | | | Would you still be bored | Apr 23, 2023 |
Tom in London wrote: Anna Grynfeld Smith wrote:
.... I don't see anything wrong in working on MTPE projects ....
I wouldn't be able to stand the boredom.
even if the text was in one of your specialized areas or a favorite topic?
| | | |
Sadek_A wrote:
Regarding that very specific example I provided, I would love to read your detailed take on how Grammar caused that mistranslation.
Perhaps, you could also provide a simple algorithm to fix that malfunction.
...have to proof the future stunning results in that combination for you. We will read from each other in one years time and then you'll have to admit the progress made by them. Already now I can see the results by moving more and more translators of that combination (back) into countries with lower costs for a living (and with a time zone two hours ahead of CET). I'm pretty sure that you could name at least one, too?
[Bearbeitet am 2023-04-23 20:06 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
| It's not dead, it's just unattractive | May 21, 2023 |
I'll tell you my story.
I started translating back in 2011, when I was only 23.
At that time, I wanted to be a video games translator.
By 2017, I had moved to Cambridge, translated FIFA, Google Assistant, and many other premium brands.
And I had also reached the ceiling for my career.
At 30!
There was no way I could earn more than 35-40 USD/hour, while other freelancers were making 60-100 USD/hour.
All whi... See more I'll tell you my story.
I started translating back in 2011, when I was only 23.
At that time, I wanted to be a video games translator.
By 2017, I had moved to Cambridge, translated FIFA, Google Assistant, and many other premium brands.
And I had also reached the ceiling for my career.
At 30!
There was no way I could earn more than 35-40 USD/hour, while other freelancers were making 60-100 USD/hour.
All while those pretentious pricks so called premium market translators were boasting about their super skills and yadda yadda.
So, I realized the ugly truth: if I wanted to be a premium translator, I needed to become a subject matter expert in something OUTSIDE the translation world.
So, I hard pivoted to marketing.
Translation as a profession is not attractive for anyone.
There's no seniority, there's no any prospect of a career progression or any improvement in your pay.
So, why stay there? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 21:15
Member
English to Turkish
Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
There was no way I could earn more than 35-40 USD/hour, while other freelancers were making 60-100 USD/hour.
.
There's no seniority, there's no any prospect of a career progression or any improvement in your pay.
So, why stay there?
Isn't 35-40 USD/hour an attractive rate in Mexico? Of course, the sky can be the limit, but I'd very much doubt that a Spanish translator in Madrid, however specialized he is, could earn 100 USD/hour given the competition he's facing from Ecuador, Costa Rica, Argentina etc. But a British or American translator living in Peru and translating from Spanish is a different story, they can very well command 100 USD per hour.
You can always increase your rates if you're brave enough... it's a risky business if you ask me. I wouldn't be inclined to try it with my regulars.
"Why stay there?" Good question. I always advise young lads considering translation as a career option to become professional footballers instead while they still have the chance... They can earn shit loads of money, and won't have to bother with crap like ChatGPT, excessively/unnecessarily complicated, geeky CAT tools, low rates etc... You can earn 80K a week just by sitting on the bench... I wish I could go back in time...
| | | | | A world giving up on meaning | May 21, 2023 |
"All your base are belong to us" has been a good enough translation for a video game since I don't know when. How can you earn a ton of money if you translate video games? One thing I see as an overall threat to our profession is an ongoing attack on meaning. All meaning is relative. Do you think you know what something means? Well, here's a list of cognitive biases that will destroy your assumed knowledge. These lists are easy to memorize, and you don't have to think much to dismiss whatever is... See more "All your base are belong to us" has been a good enough translation for a video game since I don't know when. How can you earn a ton of money if you translate video games? One thing I see as an overall threat to our profession is an ongoing attack on meaning. All meaning is relative. Do you think you know what something means? Well, here's a list of cognitive biases that will destroy your assumed knowledge. These lists are easy to memorize, and you don't have to think much to dismiss whatever is being said by referring to some of the list items. It's becoming ever easier to defend whatever ChatGPT has written because it sounds like a million bucks, who cares if it's conventionally meaningless. Degrading education is another helpful trend. Does this make me scared? Not really. I've had enough projects where the manager would say, "We have a translation that's totally effed up, the customer is angry, can you fix it?" And I'd fix it. Which kind of suggests that there still are customers who do care about meaning. Maybe they'll be gone before long. I have a fight to fight, and if I lose, I'll switch to something else. Being a bum in the street is not the best career option in Soviet Russia, but some people still go for it and do just fine. I'll make a good bum. I loved field living when in the military. If you saw the blindage we built deep in the woods, you'd be green with envy
[Edited at 2023-05-21 09:11 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-05-21 09:12 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-05-21 09:13 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:15
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| the obvious question | May 21, 2023 |
Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
I'll tell you my story.
The obvious question for Mr Moneymaker:
What are you doing here?
| | |
|
|
|
| Why do I want to live in an underdeveloped country? | May 21, 2023 |
Baran Keki wrote: Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
There was no way I could earn more than 35-40 USD/hour, while other freelancers were making 60-100 USD/hour.
.
There's no seniority, there's no any prospect of a career progression or any improvement in your pay.
So, why stay there?
Isn't 35-40 USD/hour an attractive rate in Mexico? Of course, the sky can be the limit, but I'd very much doubt that a Spanish translator in Madrid, however specialized he is, could earn 100 USD/hour given the competition he's facing from Ecuador, Costa Rica, Argentina etc. But a British or American translator living in Peru and translating from Spanish is a different story, they can very well command 100 USD per hour. You can always increase your rates if you're brave enough... it's a risky business if you ask me. I wouldn't be inclined to try it with my regulars. "Why stay there?" Good question. I always advise young lads considering translation as a career option to become professional footballers instead while they still have the chance... They can earn shit loads of money, and won't have to bother with crap like ChatGPT, excessively/unnecessarily complicated, geeky CAT tools, low rates etc... You can earn 80K a week just by sitting on the bench... I wish I could go back in time...
So basically you're suggesting I should move/stay in an underdeveloped country just to have the strange privilege of being a translator?
I'd rather be a marketer and a copywriter and make big bucks, be respected by society and not be seen as a cog
| | | | | Because I love seeing translators cry | May 21, 2023 |
Tom in London wrote: Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
I'll tell you my story.
The obvious question for Mr Moneymaker: What are you doing here?
Because I love seeing translators cry about AI and how rates have plummeted and yadda yadda?
Now, seriously, because someone sent me this article.
If you don't like my comments or think the truth is too hard for your translation ears, then you can skip
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 21:15
Member
English to Turkish
| 'Underdeveloped country'? | May 21, 2023 |
Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
So basically you're suggesting I should move/stay in an underdeveloped country just to have the strange privilege of being a translator?
I'd rather be a marketer and a copywriter and make big bucks, be respected by society and not be seen as a cog
I'm not suggesting anything. I just wondered whether "35-40 USD/hour" was a good enough rate in Mexico or not, that's all. I know that Mexico is not an 'underdeveloped country', but it ain't exactly a Canada or Germany either. And judging by your profile you're currently staying there.
I can't claim to know much about Spanish translation market, but my gut feeling tells me that native English translators translating from Spanish everywhere in the world (and for that matter into any language around the world) stand to earn more than native Spanish translators translating from English irrespective of their location.
If you want to be a marketer/copywriter and make big bucks from Spanish, by all means go right ahead and do it. That's the spirit!
I'm just wondering if it's in fact possible to make 60-100 USD per hour from Spanish given the vast number of native Spanish speakers living in countries where the living standards are a lot lower than in Spain or EU.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » translation is dead as a profession | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
| | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
