| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21] > | translation is dead as a profession Thread poster: Daniel Rich
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| Maybe an into English translator can charge a little more | May 22, 2023 |
If you even take a look at what this LinkedIn guru Maria S says, she claims she charges 0.22 USD/word for into Spanish translations. Of course, that is minia project management, minus other translators and editors involved.
Maybe if you do into English translation, you can do a little more (0.17), which still falls behind the 100 USD/hour rate that other freelancers/professionals do.
[Editado a las 2023-05-22 20:05 GMT]
| | | | | Hence why I hard pivoted | May 22, 2023 |
Kevin Fulton wrote: Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
It doesn't really mean I can charge 100 USD/hour, like a savvy lawyer in his 40s.
Here in the Detroit area, most experienced attorneys charge around $400/hour. They might net $100/hour after office expenses, salaries and benefits to secretaries, bribes to court officials, etc. But your point is well taken. Earnings by translators have fallen severely behind when compared to other skilled professions/trades. Despite efficiencies due to CAT tools, judicious use of MT, etc., there are fewer opportunities to get ahead or even save for retirement without putting in hours which – in the long run – are detrimental to both health and the quality of life. I don't see the overall financial situation improving during my lifetime.
Hence why I am a marketer and an email list manager now
| | | | Michael Newton 
United States
Local time: 11:02
Japanese to English
+ ...
| translation dead? | May 22, 2023 |
Don't be surprised if someone tells you you have too much experience.
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 16:02
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
Because I love seeing translators cry about AI and how rates have plummeted and yadda yadda?
Now, seriously, because someone sent me this article.
If you don't like my comments or think the truth is too hard for your translation ears, then you can skip
I think the truth can be hard for the ears of young translators or newcomers into the translation market.
Translators with a "T" don't cry, they are quite happy with their work, their rates, their clients, with or without using recent technology and they are alive and kicking.
Good luck with your new job
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Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 11:02
Japanese to English
+ ...
| translation dead? | May 22, 2023 |
I think "translators with a T" may see the worsening environment, the sinking ship and may obtain a life preserver and pivot to something else in life besides New Grub Street.
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 11:02
Japanese to English
+ ...
| translation dead | May 22, 2023 |
I have variously been a translator, research assistant and equity analyst. I have always known that translation, especially now, is a precarious occupation. It has been said that succeeding in translation is a matter of luck. It is a pity that one's chosen profession rests on luck. Somewhat like hitchhiking on some vast highway in the American Southwest. Maybe someone will pick me up, maybe not. This is why I got a CFA, a CPA and qualified as a Certified Hedge Fund Professional and have now pivo... See more I have variously been a translator, research assistant and equity analyst. I have always known that translation, especially now, is a precarious occupation. It has been said that succeeding in translation is a matter of luck. It is a pity that one's chosen profession rests on luck. Somewhat like hitchhiking on some vast highway in the American Southwest. Maybe someone will pick me up, maybe not. This is why I got a CFA, a CPA and qualified as a Certified Hedge Fund Professional and have now pivoted to equity analysis. As a sidebar, I am somewhat reminded of the situation going on in the UK with the junior doctors and nurses. They say they will "strike until Christmas and the Christmas after that" (Times of London). I think some are gradually realizing that the government is not going to give in. They have other options. They can migrate to New Zealand or Australia. I doubt that many will gravitate towards stocking shelves at Tesco. Juan Pablo has the right idea. Use your intellect to find a profession where you are respected and do not have to live on New Grub Street. Hoping things will get in the translation business is like waiting for pigs to fly. ▲ Collapse
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expressisverbis wrote: Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
Because I love seeing translators cry about AI and how rates have plummeted and yadda yadda?
Now, seriously, because someone sent me this article.
If you don't like my comments or think the truth is too hard for your translation ears, then you can skip I think the truth can be hard for the ears of young translators or newcomers into the translation market. Translators with a "T" don't cry, they are quite happy with their work, their rates, their clients, with or without using recent technology and they are alive and kicking. Good luck with your new job
Translators with a "T" are always complaining on Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn about how bad agencies are with them, how poorly they're paid and how they're put under Draconian conditions.
But hey, enjoy fighting over cents per word for your work and being discounted prices over fuzzy matches, and all that sort of stuff agencies do.
Enjoy the t of translation.
| | | | | Did you know I am a top Nimdzi influencer | May 22, 2023 |
expressisverbis wrote: Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
Because I love seeing translators cry about AI and how rates have plummeted and yadda yadda?
Now, seriously, because someone sent me this article.
If you don't like my comments or think the truth is too hard for your translation ears, then you can skip I think the truth can be hard for the ears of young translators or newcomers into the translation market. Translators with a "T" don't cry, they are quite happy with their work, their rates, their clients, with or without using recent technology and they are alive and kicking. Good luck with your new job
Oh and by the way, I was a Nimdzi top language influencer back in 2021.
In case you don't know, that's a list with the social media influencers in the translation industry.
My link here:
https://www.nimdzi.com/the-nimdzi-localization-influencers-watchlist/
Additionally, I've worked with brands such as Dropbox, PayPal, FIFA, Google Assistant, and many other brands.
So I WAS a translator with a T.
Cheers
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expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 16:02
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| And do you know... | May 22, 2023 |
Juan Pablo Sans wrote: Translators with a "T" are always complaining on Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn about how bad agencies are with them, how poorly they're paid and how they're put under Draconian conditions. But hey, enjoy fighting over cents per word for your work and being discounted prices over fuzzy matches, and all that sort of stuff agencies do. Enjoy the t of translation.
1.: I do not fit into that group of translators.
2.: I also don't know what a Facebook or Twitter is and I really don't care. I have an account on LinkedIn but I make very little or no use of it.
3.: I don't work exclusively for translation agencies, I have direct clients and I don't haggle over prices.
4.: Thank you. I have enjoyed translation since 1997 and hope to continue to do so until my mental and physical sanity allows me to.
I wish you all the best!
Bye!
[Edited at 2023-05-22 20:39 GMT]
| | | | | We have so many options! | May 23, 2023 |
Michael Newton wrote:
… It has been said that succeeding in translation is a matter of luck. It is a pity that one's chosen profession rests on luck. …
Won’t luck always be a part of any professional pursuit, though? There are simply too many variables in life to calculate. I think in that respect, translation as a profession requires no more luck than most other freelance work. And I don’t know a single freelancer, at any level of success, who does not hedge their bets somewhat to guard against simple bad luck.
It’s true that as a translator/editor at some point you reach an income ceiling — but again, this is true of any profession where you are essentially selling your time (almost all freelance or employed work). At some point, you become the bottleneck, regardless of what your rates are, because there is only so much you can do in a day. That isn’t solvable by pivoting to a different industry — but it also doesn’t need to be a bad thing if your financial goals are achievable within that time frame.
I personally am not great at keeping my eyes and mind open for new ways to improve the business side of my translation work (cue horrible “entrepreneurial” jargon), but as a colleague of mine in Germany points out, doing exactly that often makes the difference between a good translator with an acceptable income and a good translator who is “successful” (wherever they personally draw that line). And I was taught/mentored by translators who still lived in a world where you could “just translate” and sort of not think about the business side. We can’t do that any more.
So no, translation is not dead. But we’ve got to stop thinking of “raising rates” as the only part of our financial situation we can adjust: That’s just not true, and it hasn’t been true for ages. Many successful translators recognize this, and have often branched out by offering translator training or other services that can more easily be left on a “back burner” while making money (a filmed course or a high-quality glossary can theoretically be sold an unlimited number of times without needing significant additional effort). That’s far from the only option for changing the structure of our work (other options deserve another thread, which I will leave someone else to start in the appropriate forum).
Agency rates can, indeed, be abysmal and a real obstacle to professional and financial growth. PMs can be real jerks (often because they are forced to by the way the agency has structured their finances). Clients can be clueless and have horrifying ideas about how our work should be done. Digital tools make some of these forces worse or harder to counteract. All these things can be true! What doesn’t have to be true is the supposed consequence that everything is going to hell and the golden age of translation is over.
Everyone gets to choose how they react to professional circumstances. Juan Pablo, if you like your pivot, more power to you, and I wish you every imaginable success! I just don’t think that your conclusion and reaction needs to be universal. We’re the original adaptable industry. Let’s own that.
| | | | | Diversification | May 23, 2023 |
Peter Dahm Robertson wrote:
I was taught/mentored by translators who still lived in a world where you could “just translate” and sort of not think about the business side. We can’t do that any more.
So no, translation is not dead. But we’ve got to stop thinking of “raising rates” as the only part of our financial situation we can adjust: That’s just not true, and it hasn’t been true for ages. Many successful translators recognize this, and have often branched out by offering translator training or other services that can more easily be left on a “back burner” while making money (a filmed course or a high-quality glossary can theoretically be sold an unlimited number of times without needing significant additional effort). That’s far from the only option for changing the structure of our work (other options deserve another thread, which I will leave someone else to start in the appropriate forum).
I agree with most of your points, Peter, but not this. It is still possible to "just translate" and to raise rates, and will remain so for those who translate well enough. By definition, "successful translators" will have neither the time nor the inclination to branch out into training and other snake oils (or hard-pivot into managing mailing lists). Diversification is surely a sign of failure, which is why I never trust these people.
I am worried about AI taking the bread-and-butter jobs, but hope there will still be enough texts that require the special something that only I can add.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 17:02
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
At 31, I shouldn't be maxed out already. But in translation, you hit the ceiling and there's no ladder to climb higher.
You started at 23 and are convinced you reached your (financial) peak at 31, meaning a miserable 8 years ? That's special.
Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
Plus, there's this little nugget - even if you're pulling in 30 bucks an hour, you've got to work your tail off to scrape together a mere 3 grand (and that's before Uncle Sam gets his cut).
You might argue: "Hey, most folks don't even make 3K," and here's my comeback...
Are you really talking about 3000 pounds before taxes ? I realize it all depends on which country or part of the world you live in but I'm pretty sure a lot of translators in European countries earn (way) more than that.
Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
In the translation world, I've got to keep my nose to the grindstone every single hour, cranking out 300-400 words per hour for 100 hours a month.
100 hours a month is about 25 hours a week. In Belgium a general working week is about 38 to 40 hours, knowing that self-employed people and freelancers generally work more hours than that. You are complaining about reaching a financial ceiling while working a miserable 25 hours a week. That would be an endlessly lasting vacation to me.
I think your attitude is unfit for a career as a professional translator, so I agree with you that it's a good idea to switch jobs.
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Kay Denney
France
Local time: 17:02
French to English
Translation is not dead. Right now I'm working on a beautiful text about a wind quintet, advertising its new repertoire to festivals for next year. It's poetic yet precise, lyrical and alluring, and the challenge is to produce a text to match its beauty despite translating into pragmatic English out of poetic French. My niche is safe from MT and AI, at least until I retire (French government just added another couple of years for me, but I reckon I'm still good).
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 17:02
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Juan Pablo Sans wrote: Oh and by the way, I was a Nimdzi top language influencer back in 2021. In case you don't know, that's a list with the social media influencers in the translation industry. My link here: https://www.nimdzi.com/the-nimdzi-localization-influencers-watchlist/ Additionally, I've worked with brands such as Dropbox, PayPal, FIFA, Google Assistant, and many other brands. Cheers
Thinking all of this really matters might be part of your problem. It's nice to have translated FIFA (my favourite game ), but I think it's safe to say that the majority of business translators work for popular or famous or whatever brands or companies (be it in a direct or indirect way). It means you're a professional translator, not that you're a top-notch, one-of-a-kind superb one.
[Edited at 2023-05-23 09:29 GMT]
| | | | | I don't like being a commodity | May 23, 2023 |
Lieven Malaise wrote: Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
At 31, I shouldn't be maxed out already. But in translation, you hit the ceiling and there's no ladder to climb higher. You started at 23 and are convinced you reached your (financial) peak at 31, meaning a miserable 8 years ? That's special. Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
Plus, there's this little nugget - even if you're pulling in 30 bucks an hour, you've got to work your tail off to scrape together a mere 3 grand (and that's before Uncle Sam gets his cut).
You might argue: "Hey, most folks don't even make 3K," and here's my comeback... Are you really talking about 3000 pounds before taxes ? I realize it all depends on which country or part of the world you live in but I'm pretty sure a lot of translators in European countries earn (way) more than that. Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
In the translation world, I've got to keep my nose to the grindstone every single hour, cranking out 300-400 words per hour for 100 hours a month. 100 hours a month is about 25 hours a week. In Belgium a general working week is about 38 to 40 hours, knowing that self-employed people and freelancers generally work more hours than that. You are complaining about reaching a financial ceiling while working a miserable 25 hours a week. That would be an endlessly lasting vacation to me. I think your attitude is unfit for a career as a professional translator, so I agree with you that it's a good idea to switch jobs.
I'm complaining because you can be 2 weeks with no job at all and then 100 hours crammed into 2 weeks and 8 projects.
That's the way the translation market works.
As for my attitude, sorry, but I don't like being a commodity that works all day and all night just to make a living.
Cheers
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